Like Ra's Naughty Forum

Like Ra, I have a bigger issue that I want to discuss which really drives me into denial of my trans identity. You see, I know that I am fundamentally female and feminine but the problem is that i am also attracted (sometimes sexually) to external femininity and women. So my issue is that for some reason I cannot reconcile those two in my mind; that is identifying as female and also being attracted to females. I've read that cis lesbians have the same problem sometimes minus the gender feelings because for them they sometimes say that they don't know whether they envy her, want to be her, want to be friends with her or want to be with her. I feel the same way but since I am not a cis female, my sexual feelings towards femininity sometimes cause me to go into denial of who I feel inside as a woman (a non-sexual feeling) and then I start purging my identity and attribute it to some feminization fetish only to regret it a short time later.

Also see this post I wrote yesterday for more detail:

(01 Dec 2020, 00:12 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Since I like women and do not like men

(01 Dec 2020, 06:28 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]For me its more complicated. Sissy hypnos opened me up to liking being with a man. Although in real life almost all men are a turn off. So I am basically exclusively attracted to women although that changes if I imagine myself in the female form (as I should be). Then it feels more natural to be with a guy because I wouldn't really want to be with a woman. Basically the reason I sometimes conflate my gender and sexuality is because I might be a lesbian in denial. I just cannot reconcile being a woman and being with a woman because my mind would just want to be friends with her or envy her beauty. There would just be no spark of attraction because she would be just like me. I've read somewhere that gay people and straight people always have the same orientation despite the gender they identify as. For example, I read that a formerly gay man transitioned to become female and then came out as a lesbian despite having no prior attraction to women. So I guess I will always be drawn to heterosexual attraction and relationships. But I think if I were to ever have the ability to transition in real life, things would get sorted out or I would be at peace with whoever I am attracted to then because I would no longer have conflicting gender identity feelings.

(02 Dec 2020, 00:28 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(02 Dec 2020, 00:25 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]Like Ra Wrote: [url=https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread-General-TG-TS-TV-and-sex-change-thread?pid=47846#pid47846][/url]You ARE a CIS-man.

You are not transitioning yet, are you? So technically you are a CIS-man.

NO. NOT.

One does not have to transition to be in the trans spectrum.

If anybody is speaking French and willing to understand more about this last discussion between @Hazel, @Like Ra, @vanessa_fetish and @essanym, there is a good episode of the podcast Camille by Binge audio (one of their many great production BTW) : https://www.binge.audio/podcast/camille/...des-femmes

It's quite focused on the "feminist" argument to exclude trans-women from gender-restricted women area but it enlighten some of the mechanism that are running is this thread since the arrival of @Hazel.

(02 Dec 2020, 01:10 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]How is it wrong? Example: All Dutch citizens are humans, but not all humans are Dutch citizens. So why not also, all transwomen are women but not all women are transwomen.

"A is a subset of B" is different from "A=B", don't you think? So, we agree that the statement transwomen=women is wrong, right?

Next.

If you are saying, that "transwomen" is a subset of "women", than you have to correctly define what "women". Since we use Wiki for definitions, let's check wiki:

" a woman has two X chromosomes and is capable of pregnancy and giving birth from puberty until menopause. Female anatomy, as distinguished from male anatomy, includes the fallopian tubes, ovaries, uterus, vulva, breasts, Skene's glands, and Bartholin's glands. "

If my understanding is correct, transwomen might have breasts (via HRT and/or plastic surgery) and/or vulva (via plastic surgery). The rest does not apply. So, in my opinion, transwomen can not belong to women. At least not much more, than men belong to women (men might have breasts as a result of, for example, gynecomastia).

Intersex/hermaphrodite people is a different case.

(02 Dec 2020, 01:21 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]The mind has many levels. What you are referring to is pure consciousness.

No. I'm talking about energo-parasites (some of them are called larvae). What I spontaneously wrote is a cleansing method to get rid of some crap that affects thinking, decisions and behaviour and makes the mind run in circles like an ear-worm. So, sorry, but you (@Hazel) misunderstood this... Again and again .... 😟

(02 Dec 2020, 01:27 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]You're 175? Lucky you!

I always wanted to be taller 😁 On heels I'm 185 and it feels sooooo high!!! 😁

(02 Dec 2020, 00:51 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]Gender is not a lifestyle.

Of course not. "gender" to "lifestyle" is like a "red" to "apple". Completely different things, however, there are red apples 😊

Indians had 4 genders: men, women, masculine women and feminine men. All these genders had different lifestyles, none of them were considered superior or inferior. No gender dysphoria possible. You can be or wear or do whatever you feel like and still be very useful for the society. So, again, gender issue is mostly a social inflicted issue.

(02 Dec 2020, 22:18 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(02 Dec 2020, 01:10 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]How is it wrong? Example: All Dutch citizens are humans, but not all humans are Dutch citizens. So why not also, all transwomen are women but not all women are transwomen.

"A is a subset of B" is different than "A=B", don't you think? So, we agree that the statement transwomen=women is wrong, right?

Next.

If you are saying, that "transwomen" is a subset of "women", than you have to correctly define what "women". Since we use Wiki for definitions, let's check wiki:

" a woman has two X chromosomes and is capable of pregnancy and giving birth from puberty until menopause. Female anatomy, as distinguished from male anatomy, includes the fallopian tubes, ovaries, uterus, vulva, breasts, Skene's glands, and Bartholin's glands. "

If my understanding is correct, transwomen might have breasts (via HRT and/or plastic surgery) and/or vulva (via plastic surgery). The rest does not apply. So, in my opinion, transwomen can not belong to women. At least not much more, than men belong to women (men might have breasts as a result of, for example, gynecomastia).

Intersex/hermaphrodite people is a different case.

So what you are saying is that if a transwoman looks, sounds, and has the same external female anatomy as a biological woman while also having the same hormones coursing throughout her body; that we should somehow stick to good ol biology and still label them as a guy? Does it even make sense to treat them as a guy at that point...just because they don't have a uterus or xx chromosomes? I just hope you don't think that they should be using the men's rest room as well.

(02 Dec 2020, 22:25 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(02 Dec 2020, 01:21 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]The mind has many levels. What you are referring to is pure consciousness.

No. I'm  talking about energo-parasites (some of them are called larvae). What I spontaneously wrote is a cleansing method to get rid of some crap that affects thinking, decisions and behaviour and makes the mind run in circles like an ear-worm. So, sorry, but you (@Hazel) misunderstood this... Again and again .... 😟

Yes I reread your response again and now I see what you meant...but you have to admit that the first part did sound like a guided meditation 😁

Anyways, I don't like how you consider trans identities as energetic parasites. May I ask if you performed the same cleansing rituals for your inherent fetishes?

(02 Dec 2020, 16:52 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]You see, I know that I am fundamentally female and feminine but the problem is that i am also attracted (sometimes sexually) to external femininity and women. So my issue is that for some reason I cannot reconcile those two in my mind; that is identifying as female and also being attracted to females. I've read that cis lesbians have the same problem sometimes minus the gender feelings because for them they sometimes say that they don't know whether they envy her, want to be her, want to be friends with her or want to be with her. I feel the same way but since I am not a cis female, my sexual feelings towards femininity sometimes cause me to go into denial of who I feel inside as a woman (a non-sexual feeling) and then I start purging my identity and attribute it to some feminization fetish only to regret it a short time later.
Also see this post I wrote yesterday for more detail:

(01 Dec 2020, 00:12 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Since I like women and do not like me

(01 Dec 2020, 06:28 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]For me its more complicated. Sissy hypnos opened me up to liking being with a man. Although in real life almost all men are a turn off. So I am basically exclusively attracted to women although that changes if I imagine myself in the female form (as I should be). Then it feels more natural to be with a guy because I wouldn't really want to be with a woman. Basically the reason I sometimes conflate my gender and sexuality is because I might be a lesbian in denial. I just cannot reconcile being a woman and being with a woman because my mind would just want to be friends with her or envy her beauty. There would just be no spark of attraction because she would be just like me. I've read somewhere that gay people and straight people always have the same orientation despite the gender they identify as. For example, I read that a formerly gay man transitioned to become female and then came out as a lesbian despite having no prior attraction to women. So I guess I will always be drawn to heterosexual attraction and relationships. But I think if I were to ever have the ability to transition in real life, things would get sorted out or I would be at peace with whoever I am attracted to then because I would no longer have conflicting gender identity feelings.

I feel, reading this discussion with interest, that you enlighten the complexity of trans-identity.  It seems quite obvious you consider yourself a trans women but what I understand is that you seems afraid of your sexual orientation and the possible changes linked to a transition.  But I'm not sure to understand why.  As you said, you might be a lesbian in denial but then, you seem afraid of having autogynephilia (if I remember well). But I don't think you can be sure that you would be with a women exclusively because you would want to be like her.  Once you'll find your position in the transspectrum (how much you transition, how you want to pass and by which means that suits you : the way you dress, using makeup or not, going through surgery or not, acting feminine -wholy,partly,not at all, begin boutch, etc-, wearing heeled shoes or not, which social attitude you feel like yours as a woman, your social behaviour, ...)  you'll more likely search for something other than a model (or at least, not a "myself as a women model" but more something that completes yourself as some good couples have).  You might/seems be driven by envy and hormones in your actual position while once your transition is stable, you'll naturally search for something else but I don't think you can know for now. Some trans keep their sexual orientation while others changes it and it all depends of their own path.  (I believe transitioning certainly is a life changer as much as a storm)

But you seems aware of this fact so maybe you should search around this conflict and why it bothers you.  (the conflict and not the orientation)

I don't think you should bother about your sexual orientation (or fetish if there is some) for now and more think of all the rest (social life, work, how people refer to you, ...).   Then, if you are sure of your gender identity, and still feel the same way, as aeady said in this thread, you should probably see a specialist or search for a way you might transition (there are so much ways) and get yourself in peace about it.  The rest will follow.  

To compare to myself (I'm a cis-man) if that may help you : I do envy woman and yes, I do get attraction imaging myself a woman and wanting to look like one and I also, sometimes, see myself (as a women or not btw) being with a men.  I have the female finger ratio, I'm little and have some women attitude.   But I'm pretty sure I'm not trans. I'm more against the sexual binary epistemiology which enforce me to identify myself as a men but within it, I don't believe I'm trans. (What I mean is it seem the interest is in some way the same while the gender is not, hence the point being why it bothers you and not the conflict in itself)

Hope it helps