There is a significant difference between a biological gender/sex and what is politely called a medical condition or rudely referred to as a freak of nature. Normally men do not have a female reproductive system, boobs etc and women do not have male reproductive systems or beards. People who are born with traits in defiance of the standard always have genetic differences not found in the general population and any changes of the reproductive systems are almost guaranteed to be negative and makes having children harder or impossible.
From a more human perspective people just have to deal with whatever they are given, if we disregard the most annoying people who hate anyone a little bit different from them (an annoyingly mainstream belief in American politics) most of society is tolerant of who you are as long as it doesn't interfere with them. The strange part of the posted UC Davis poster is that it mixes reasonable complaints about slurs and irritating/demeaning questions with completely benign issues. If you look like a specific gender don't be surprised if people think you are that gender, asking for people's gender is a considerably awkward process and in most cases is downright offensive and I personally have had many a situation where I am forced to guess based on a person's name or by asking a friend. To call me a transphobe is excessive and unhelpful in the first place and dilutes the meaning of the word by linking it to every day people instead of the genuinely awful people still around.
Pronouns are a great thorn in my side, typically I can just guesstimate and move on with my day but I genuinely do not like calling anyone an unusual pronoun, it is reserved for inanimate objects and inanimate objects alone, if you are a person you aren't an it. If you are visibly male or female there are the respective pronouns and If I can't tell I either use they or the persons name. This is the least confusing way of addressing a person and any change complicates the situation with only marginal benefit.
(19 Feb 2023, 06:17 )Lancer Wrote: [ -> ]Pronouns are a great thorn in my side, typically I can just guesstimate and move on with my day but I genuinely do not like calling anyone an unusual pronoun, it is reserved for inanimate objects and inanimate objects alone, if you are a person you aren't an it. If you are visibly male or female there are the respective pronouns and If I can't tell I either use they or the persons name. This is the least confusing way of addressing a person and any change complicates the situation with only marginal benefit.
I work remotely with lots of people from lots of places, I have ZERO clue to whom I am dealing with - not to mention personal pronouns aren't used the same globally anyway. Honestly, gender neutral used of they and them is as old as the hills in English and I am at a loss as to why this is a problem. There's multiple languages around the world that don't differentiate and others where there are multiple pronouns to cover all sorts of things including indicating what specific type of aunt you are.
As an aside the 'can't get pregnant thing'? Really? By that definition, my partner of many many years isn't a woman and wasn't assigned that sex at birth and yet she can't get pregnant - the medical condition she has affects about 200,000 people a year in the US alone.
Reading threads like this reminds me of listening to my father back in the 80s moaning about the 'gays' and demanding to know where they all came from and why they're suddenly so public - he used to insist it was all just indoctrination and a fad.
(19 Feb 2023, 18:09 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]gender neutral used of they and them is as old as the hills in English
Most likely, you are from the US 😊 To address one person as "they" is too weird, unless it's a polite form built-in the language, for example, Spanish. But it has nothing to do with "political correctness".
Languages is an interesting subject. I wonder how different TGs feel in countries with highly "genderized" languages. For example, even simple 1st person "thanks" has two forms in Portuguese: obrigado/obrigada.
(19 Feb 2023, 21:48 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Most likely, you are from the US
Just seen in the news, that British publishers of kids books remove words like ugly, fat, freak or replace them with neutral or meaningless words. E.g. "I'm still a freak" is replaced with "I'm still myself". "Fat boy" became "enormous boy". The books are from 50-60-70 years ago, when there was no political correctness yet.
(19 Feb 2023, 18:06 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ] (16 Feb 2023, 23:17 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (16 Feb 2023, 02:44 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]Mumsnet is a popular (in the UK) discussion forum for parents - there's some odd stuff on there: https://www.mumsnet.com/
Yes, I see now. Kinda brutal. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationshi...of-support, https://www.transwidowsvoices.org, https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2019...its-all-ok ...
On one hand, I do feel for both sides. On another.... I'm happy that my wife is OK with my indulging in my autogynephilia (and she even helps me with some things), as long as I'm not going to transition 😁
But how does JKRowling fit into this? Any links?
Stuff like this from recently pulls all the threads together.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/...complaint/
What is it with some of these famous creative people and having to voice their generally unpopular/garbage opinions out to the world. Kanye, Notch and JKRowling all could live great happy lifestyles but no, just gotta chase the headlights and risk tanking their own success for some what seems like strangely egotistical reasons. Maybe once you get enough money you stop caring about material things and care more about ideology I guess.
(19 Feb 2023, 21:48 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (19 Feb 2023, 18:09 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]gender neutral used of they and them is as old as the hills in English
Most likely, you are from the US 😊 To address one person as "they" is too weird, unless it's a polite form built-in the language, for example, Spanish. But it has nothing to do with "political correctness".
Languages is an interesting subject. I wonder how different TGs feel in countries with highly "genderized" languages. For example, even simple 1st person "thanks" has two forms in Portuguese: obrigado/obrigada.
In Canada we have no problem with they/them. No, we are NOT the same as the US.
In Montreal, there is French. Even they, with their gendered language, make provision for an equivalent.
It's the ignorant small minded who have problems with pronouns.
(19 Feb 2023, 18:09 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]I work remotely with lots of people from lots of places, I have ZERO clue to whom I am dealing with - not to mention personal pronouns aren't used the same globally anyway. Honestly, gender neutral used of they and them is as old as the hills in English and I am at a loss as to why this is a problem. There's multiple languages around the world that don't differentiate and others where there are multiple pronouns to cover all sorts of things including indicating what specific type of aunt you are.
As an aside the 'can't get pregnant thing'? Really? By that definition, my partner of many many years isn't a woman and wasn't assigned that sex at birth and yet she can't get pregnant - the medical condition she has affects about 200,000 people a year in the US alone.
Reading threads like this reminds me of listening to my father back in the 80s moaning about the 'gays' and demanding to know where they all came from and why they're suddenly so public - he used to insist it was all just indoctrination and a fad.
Exactly! With a near perfect he/she/they system why on earth do we need more? It is a
eady used for objects and should not be used for people and I genuinely do not like any pronouns like ze/zi/xe/xi/zir/zer/xir/xer as they mean I have to make conscious effort to edit how I address a person in a conversation and they are often inconsistent in spelling between person to person, those are hard enough a
eady, I don't need a harder mode.
Pregnancy being related to gender is a strange hill to die on. Having functioning/ anatomically complete sex organs is an important part of one's gender/sex but inability to get pregnant is an issue for many women and gets worse with time which makes it a strange measurement. The argument seems like a hasty retarget of arguing that trans women are unable to get pregnant and have children and thus breaking family lineage or requiring adoptions which isn't a very convincing argument to anyone who doesn't a
eady agree on the same viewpoints. People prefer to care about who they love rather then parenthood which is completely understandable.
Fair point, I think that society has greatly oppressed many people who fall out of the norm mentally or psychologically even up to incredibly recent times but I have my doubts that we are ever going to overturn the existence of the XX and XY being the standard sexes and the outliers being genetic/developmental issues.
(20 Feb 2023, 06:47 )Lancer Wrote: [ -> ]What is it with some of these famous creative people and having to voice their generally unpopular/garbage opinions out to the world. ... JKRowling ...
I still haven't seen any links to the so-called transphobic Rowlings tweets. So far, I haven't seen any.
(20 Feb 2023, 07:22 )Lancer Wrote: [ -> ]Pregnancy being related to gender
Pregnancy is related to sex, not gender.
(20 Feb 2023, 07:22 )Lancer Wrote: [ -> ]I have my doubts that we are ever going to overturn the existence of the XX and XY being the standard sexes and the outliers being genetic/developmental issues.
What do you suggest? What's wrong with
https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...6#pid65396 ?