Like Ra's Naughty Forum

(03 Dec 2020, 19:24 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]Then you are a troll by your definition. You're trying to manipulate her and others to your corresponding agenda.

Any proofs?

(03 Dec 2020, 02:17 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(03 Dec 2020, 02:05 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]

(03 Dec 2020, 01:53 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]OK, do you agree, that "A=B" and "A is B" are two different statements, because "A=B" assumes "B=A", but "A is B" does not assume "B is A"? Hence, "transwoman=woman" and "transwoman is woman" are two different statements?

For me, the two are interchangeable. For example, I might say that 2+2 is 4 instead of 2+2 = 4. Maybe this is just a regional English dialect difference I have.

If they were logically interchangable, then you would effectively claim, that woman=transwoman, what is a nonsense. "IS" is a replacement of "⊂" symbol.

To rephrase: A⊂B is different from A=B.

To continue. All the "transwoman vs woman" problems arise because people compare "colours" with "weight".

Quoting myself:

(10 Nov 2020, 19:31 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Sex (a set of physical characteristics) ≠ Gender (non-physical mental feature)
None of the above defines the Sexual Orientation. Scientifically proved.
Sex is a constant, permanent feature given at birth, sorry (unless you achieve the level above the 3D-space-time limitations)
The rest can change.

Woman/man terms are related to sex
Transwoman/transmen terms are related to gender

Hence the statement "transwoman is woman" makes no sense, because it literally means "gender is sex", what is wrong.

Just in case, I'm using the following wiki-definition of a transwoman:

"Trans women have a male sex assignment at birth that does not align with their gender identity"

(03 Dec 2020, 03:35 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]this is the only place I can discuss them.

Discussions ("sharing opinions on subjects that are thought of during the conversation" - wiki) can have different purposes.

Wiki Wrote:Most conversations may be classified by their goal.

1- Functional conversation is designed to convey information in order to help achieve an individual or group goal.
2- Small talk is a type of conversation where the topic is less important than the social purpose of achieving bonding between people or managing personal distance, such as 'how is the weather' might be portrayed as an example, which conveys no practicality whatsoever.

*My* goal is "the functional conversation" - I want to get to the truth, to get more information, to learn, to share knowledge, to be corrected if I'm wrong. The only way to get to the truth is to question the existing statements. There would be no progress if everybody would blindly agree with everybody.

(23 Dec 2019, 20:34 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

"princesitanatty Wrote:By the way, I disagree with your claim

What is good, otherwise there would be no discussion

Disagreeing is good if properly argumented, and, if possible (not always possible, unfortunately), supported by facts.

There is one caveat, though - both parties must be willing to get to the truth and to converse with each other.

Think of two discussions:

1- Both parties attack each others opinion and prove their own even if they know, that they agree with each other
2- Both parties keep repeating their own statements without realising, that they are the same

In both cases, both parties have the same opinion, but in the 1st case the opinion has more value, because it was attacked from all sides and proved strong. In the 2nd case the frustration is the result.

If you think, that I'm wrong - prove it and propose your argumented idea.
If you think, that I'm right, think of a possible counterargument, test the theory.

I use the following definition of "argument":

"argument is a series of statements (in a natural language), intended to determine the degree of truth of another statement"

OK, let's brainstorm this (can be a separate thread). In psychology when parties are talking about common "empty", not clearly defined or impossible to verbalize subjects, they say - replace the nouns with verbs. So, here's the question:

What do men and women do differently? What do women do? (Apart from wearing women's clothes and make-up, please). Let's imagine a healthy woman with no pathologies (to avoid possible collisions). Also, please avoid social expectations!!!

For example:
- women give births
- women bleed once a month
- women move differently, than men (have different plastic, can you rephraze?)
- women keep their legs together (knees and/or feet)
- women keep their elbows tucked and at the angle (carrying angle)

(02 Dec 2020, 01:04 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]The questions you keep asking are your attempts to disprove my identity.

Some years back we eyewitnessed one scene in a multistorey shop. The shop "(Peek&Cloppenburg") has a strange "rule" - if you are going to buy something you give this thing to a shop assistant on the same floor you picked that thing up. The shop assistant removes the labels, does something in a computer, gives the customer a tag and send the item down via a special elevator. In other words, you are not supposed to walk with a bunch of clothes through the whole shop.

One big black guy in traditional African clothes brought some stuff to the ground floor. An assistant ask him to check out the clothes at the corresponding floor. The answer was:"You are sending me there because I'm black!"

Before you (@Hazel) "infer" - I'm not calling you (@Hazel) a black guy and no, I'm not racist (yet).

If this metaphor does not work, here's another example. How do you answer this question:"Have you aeady stopped drinking cognac every morning?"

Both cases are related to the same manipulation technique, called "limiting possibilities". In other words, the manipulator limits the the amount of choices, when there are more choices/reasons available.

So this phrase:

(02 Dec 2020, 01:04 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]The questions you keep asking are your attempts to disprove my identity.

can not be logically responded to, because it limits the amount of possible actions and reasons, can not be defended against, and breaches the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence. I can't (and should not) prove that I want to disprove your (@Hazel and anybody) identity, because it's not possible. It's you (the person, who claims that) who should prove that I (@Like Ra or anybody) have this in mind.

I can't prove that I do not care what you (now generally, everybody is included, not just @Hazel) call yourself. I can't prove that I'm interested in what you actually feel, when it started, what led to it, what were and are the circumstances, what you have tried, what the reactions were, what is your environment, etc. There is a helluva to learn from you (all, not just @Hazel), there a helluva you (all) can learn about yourself. But then you (I mean myself, @Like Ra here) constantly hear:

(02 Dec 2020, 01:04 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]The questions you keep asking are your attempts to disprove my identity.

Yes, sure. Always and forever. (before you "inferred" - this was a sarcasm). Have you (@Hazel) asked yourself the question "Why?"

Before you (@Hazel) "inferred" - I mean: Did you (@Hazel) ask yourself - why I (@Like Ra) would want to disprove your (@Hazel) identity (whatever it means)? If "no", please ask. If "yes", what were your (@Hazel) possible reasons?

So we get to the usual point of science no being able to define the gender/sex reality correctly (even with latest research) but science is what you want to prove it...  But when we call social science, gender studies which have proven for years these differences are wrong, it's denied...  But yes, science is always evolving, full of debate between scientist until a point is found which is stable but it's far from exisiting now.  The one sure that is is that we are in a sexual binary epistemology which, I'm certain, prevents us from being able to really identify what's going on...

And for what women do differently than men by definition, naturally and without social expectation, there is on sure thing, none of your proposition enter the differences :


- women give births
Wrong except if you call infertility a disease.  But then you stigmatise women but not infertile men?
- women bleed once a month
This is a hard one...  But what about woman without ovaries?  A disease?  What about transmen?  You deny them a position?
- women move differently, than men (have different plastic, can you rephraze?)
- women keep their legs together (knees and/or feet)
- women keep their elbows tucked and at the angle (carrying angle)
Yet again about the feminity debate and yet again, my point is it's all social expectation/socialisation/gender bending/education (ballet/dance class)/...

(03 Dec 2020, 19:51 )Zooy Wrote: [ -> ]for now, do not post more than once per hour in this
thread.

Good suggestion, but does not work for, at least, me - I have a very limited access to the Internet and the forum now. But, anyway, that's it for today 😁

My addition to the women list.
Please don’t take this the wrong way....

Women can shoot Daggers from their eyes.
( not really Daggers, but the look in a female eyes when she is really pissed ).

Women have softer skin than a man.

And about A=B or A is B....

If A = B, then A can be added to B because both A and B are separate entities.
But, if A is B, then both are the same entity, and therefore can not be added together.

(04 Dec 2020, 02:30 )Tinker D Wrote: [ -> ]Women can shoot Daggers from their eyes.
( not really Daggers, but the look in a female eyes when she is really pissed ).

Women have softer skin than a man.

How, what a neutral point of view...

I think we should make an exercise.  I noticed we are always trying to define (restrict?) what a women is with this kind of exercise.

There always seems to have a big goal about defining women or feminity, often implying both are the same.  Let's take it the other way and define what a man is instead.

Because, as @Like Ra seem to often define both ensemble as being separate, I feel like such definition would be something like :

- Men have a low voice (but wait, there is high pitched singer like the darkness or all these modern pop singer)
- Men have more muscle (well, since men have testis providing testosterone and the role of it being know in muscle grow, maybe. Yet I know plenty of men incapable of handling more than 12Kg of weight and also, in sport, a men stronger than average is OK while a women stronger than average is denied the possibility to compete with other women because she's too strong...  So again, I call it not that right)
- Men always walk un-aesthetically with their knee the furthest away possible and their feet pointing outwards
(are we really all that weird while walking?)
- Men always have the elbow and hand appart from their body taking all the places they can (I'm flyyyying)
- Men cannot seat without their legs spreaded (I hate this position and always seat crossed legs in public transport)
- Men have beard (and what about beardless?)
- Men are not cute
- Men smell bad
- Men tend to always speak for the women (Well this one is true but social expectation)

(...)