General TG, TS, TV and sex change thread

[Hazel]

I am skeptical of the "trans ideology" in many ways

That's a good definition. During the time this thread exists I went from "trans-sceptical" to "trans-enthusiastic" and back to "trans-sceptical". Somehow all posters in this thread convinced me that for majority (not all!) the "gender issues" are not related to the "wrong sex", but it's rooted somewhere else, yet manifested as "gender dysphoria". As I said many times here, in most of the cases it's a socially induced problem, not related to the actual feelings of/to the own body (back to this thread - https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/showth...p?tid=2915).

And again, I'm trying to understand my own feelings here, so, as always, please do not assume, that I speak for all TG people and for all cases (somehow it usually gets interpreted in the over-generalized way, just like autogynephilia 😁 )

I don't think you will really understand if you are a (cis) guy. The thread you keep linking back to just proves that cis people can't fathom what its like to be trans because they don't have any problem with their gender or sex because everything (mind, body, gender etc) is congruent hence the word "cis". So they just feel normal, like themselves. Just like people without depression feel normal. Its only when there is an incongruency between your mind and body do you feel genuine gender dysphoria. So no matter how hard you try to analyze transgender people and attempt to write off their problems as socially induced, you will never understand because you are not trans yourself. That's why most of society is trans-skeptical because its not happening to them.

[Like Ra]

So does this mean that at some level in your mind you identify or see yourself as transgender (mtf)?

OK, if my answer above does not answer this question, then the most suitable and correct direct answer will be "No". As always for many reasons, including the definition - I'm a CIS man, and I can't be physically identified as anybody else. In my mind I can imagine myself as pretty much everything, including non-human forms (yet with some difficulties, though).

Ok got it! 😁 

It wasn't really clear before because you mentioned that you had symptoms which I thought closely resemble transwomen. So sorry for the confusion.

I strongly object using the definition "symptoms which I thought closely resemble transwomen". In my definition "transwomen" are men, who are either undergoing the transitioning or have transitioned. And those "symptoms" should not exist in such persons, because transitioning is supposed to be "the cure" for them.

So... I love feminine closes. It started as pantyhose/one-piece swimsuit fetish since I was ... mmm... 5-6? My interest in bondage appeared around the same age and became very related. Around ~22 I Photoshopped my photo into the face of a long-haired girl dressed in a lacy bodysuit, stockings and high-heels. That was very exciting. Around 23 I questioned my orientation, and men began being interested in me. Years later I appeared dressed in latex from head to toe (latex catsuit, latex dress, latex gloves, latex stockings, high heels, no wig, no make up) on Europerve. But I think (I'm not sure) it was listening to sissificaton and feminization hypnosis what hit me quite hard. I started dress up more often, I was walking in high heels every day... If not hypno, something happened and I started noticing femininity and feminine beauty. Yes, I can say that I'm kinda envy. But I would say it's more of deeply enjoying the feminine beauty, it's not even arousal, more like waves of pleasure and/or awe. And yes, there were moments when I was thinking of transitioning.

But! Speaking of transitioning... Besides aesthetics and "passabiity" (yes, I think I could even pass when I was young, not now). In the current world being a man is much easier and simpler, than being a woman. Being a man requires much less efforts. An ugly man is much more acceptable, than an ugly woman. Social expectations are in favour of men. And the physiology of women is much more fragile, than the physiology of men.

So, to answer your question again - logically and aesthetically speaking , transitioning for me is absolutely unacceptable. And I have absolutely no clue how I should "label" myself. I can live with "omorphophilia + gynephilia + TV fetishism + autogynephilia + phallophilia + misoandry " diagnosis. Oh, and please add something about bondage 😁

[Like Ra]

I don't think you will really understand if you are a (cis) guy. The thread you keep linking back to just proves that cis people can't fathom what its like to be trans because they don't have any problem with their gender or sex because everything (mind, body, gender etc) is congruent hence the word "cis". So they just feel normal, like themselves. Just like people without depression feel normal. Its only when there is an incongruency between your mind and body do you feel genuine gender dysphoria. So no matter how hard you try to analyze transgender people and attempt to write off their problems as socially induced, you will never understand because you are not trans yourself. That's why most of society is trans-skeptical because its not happening to them.

It's not about understanding or whatever. The question is simple - "What does it mean to be a man or a woman? How do you feel it if your eyes are closed?" Where are references to "CIS-normality" or "trans-normality" or "gender issues" or any other problems?

[Like Ra]

I don't think you will really understand if you are a (cis) guy.

You ARE a CIS-man. Close your eyes. How do you feel it?

[Hazel]

In my definition "transwomen" are men

That's why I don't want to transition because majority of society still holds this perspective. So sad 😢

But! Speaking of transitioning... Besides aesthetics and "passabiity" (yes, I think I could even pass when I was young, not now). In the current world being a man is much easier and simpler, than being a woman. Being a man requires much less efforts. An ugly man is much more acceptable, than an ugly woman. Social expectations are in favour of men. And the physiology of women is much more fragile, than the physiology of men.

If I were a cis woman, I could live with that.

So, to answer your question again -

It's ok, you didn't have to answer again because I completely understood your first response. 😁

[Hazel]

I don't think you will really understand if you are a (cis) guy.

You ARE a CIS-man. Close your eyes. How do you feel it?

I'll answer this one this way: How do did you feel when I presumed you were trans (based on my limited knowledge of your responses)? Something didn't sit quite right because you were very vocal in your feelings of assuring me you were a cis male. Now flip that, and that's how I feel when you call me cis.

And for the record, when I close my eyes each night I feel 0% male, in fact continuing to grow up as a guy is the most distressing and depressing thought I can think of.

Cis people don't have those thoughts and feelings. So I think @vanessa_fetish is correct, you can only speak for yourself, so lets just agree to disagree😊

[Like Ra]

In my definition "transwomen" are men

That's why I don't want to transition because majority of society still holds this perspective. So sad 😢

How do you define transwomen?

[Like Ra]

So, to answer your question again -

It's ok, you didn't have to answer again because I completely understood your first response. 😁

OK, since apparently you know myself better than I do, why can't I wear pantyhose since last September (even despite all the hypno files)? 😁

[Like Ra]

lets just agree to disagree😊

I think I miss something... Could you please remind me, what do we disagree on?

[Like Ra]

when I close my eyes each night I feel 0% male

Where do you feel it? What do males do differently, when they close their eyes?

I'll answer this one this way: How do did you feel when I presumed you were trans

Errrm... Could you please rephrase? If you are talking about the moment when I was hit by a feminization hypno file, and there was a surge of gender dysphoria, then it's a bit different, because we were in a hurry and I had to dress up quickly, but I absolutely HATED males clothing and it was terrible! However, I did not have time to close my eyes and analyze what feel.

When I close my eyes, or when I do not see any part of my body, my body "disappears" along with any refeence to the sex. Since I like women and do not like men, I do not like to see any men including myself, because I do not see myself in the mirror or on the photos, or when I look at my hands, legs or my body - all I see is a man. And I do not like to look at men, I like to look at young and pretty girls. See what I mean? I feel myself absolutely sexless, genderless, or generally bodyless. Again, if I close my eyes I do not feel my body (unless something hurts 😁).

in fact continuing to grow up as a guy is the most distressing and depressing thought I can think of.

So, it's "a thought", not a "physical feeling", this is what you mean, right?