(24 Feb 2020, 19:35 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Notice that HRT aswell as SRS seems to have the lower age limit of 16. Unless the General Rules for said country is different.
Yep, 14 for HRT without parental consent in ES, PL, UK, LV, SL.
Next question is - what if parental consent is given?
(24 Feb 2020, 19:35 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]HRT is more than enough for many people. the younger the less operations if any is needed.
Yes, fully agree here.
(24 Feb 2020, 19:35 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]How you even got the thought that an operation does infinitly more for the aesthetics than HRT is still way beyond my understanding when it simple does does way less than HRT does.
Let's just list what surgery and what HRT can do (and can not do) and compare. I'm afraid the list should be divided by the age groups.
(24 Feb 2020, 19:50 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (24 Feb 2020, 19:35 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]HRT is more than enough for many people. the younger the less operations if any is needed.
Yes, fully agree here.
(24 Feb 2020, 19:35 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]How you even got the thought that an operation does infinitly more for the aesthetics than HRT is still way beyond my understanding when it simple does does way less than HRT does.
Let's just list what surgery and what HRT can do (and can not do) and compare. I'm afraid the list should be divided by the age groups.
Sure anyone that starts HRT below the age of 30 that is more or less around normal weight compared to their height (AKA a good BMI) HRT gives way more benefits than a simple surgery or two does. Above the age of 30 the effects of HRT is going down fast every year. And today most ppl start transition/hormone blockers even way before they hit 30. So that should be the "avrage" that im most cases results are based upon. and due to the age HRT has a giant effect. Done deal! 😁
Where can I get the official info about the amount of transgenders/transsexuals per country (or, at least, in the US)? Please no links to LGBTQ++-=/GreenPeas/PinkPiece/JesusLives/VeganForce/reddit/2ch/idiots like Florence Ashley/pornhub 😉 Wikileaks is OK, provided they have the real documents.
(24 Feb 2020, 19:35 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]I never trust Trans related studies done by Americans in America
You may be right here. Even more right than you think...
(26 Feb 2020, 15:52 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]the official info about the amount of transgenders/transsexuals per country
The results can vary significantly even within one country:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...3806001805
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.eurpsy.2006.10.002
Prevalence and demography of transsexualism in Belgium (2006)
Quote:The results show an overall prevalence of 1:12,900 for male-to-female and 1:33,800 for female-to-male transsexuals in Belgium. In Wallonia (the French-speaking region of Belgium) the prevalence is significantly lower than in Flanders (the Dutch-speaking region) and in Brussels (the bilingual capital region). In the total Belgian population the male/female sex ratio is 2.43:1, again with a substantial difference between Wallonia on the one hand and Flanders on the other.
Discussion and Conclusion
While in Flanders and in Brussels the prevalence is comparable to that in other Western European countries, in Wallonia it is markedly lower. Transsexualism in Wallonia appears to be socially less acceptable: persons suffering from gender dysphoria in that part of Belgium encounter more problems accessing gender clinics and receiving treatment.
(24 Feb 2020, 19:50 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Let's just list what surgery and what HRT can do (and can not do) and compare.
Finally, something related and interesting.
"Investigating the Periocular-Based Face Recognition Across Gender Transformation". (attached)
Published in IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON INFORMATION FORENSICS AND SECURITY, VOL. 9, NO. 12, DECEMBER 2014
- HRT vs FFS
- Male vs Female
- Before vs after HRT +/- FFS
Quotes:
They took 1.2 million face images of 38 subjects (an extended version of the dataset that spanned several months to three years.)
Quote:It is unknown whether these subjects have undergone facial surgery in addition to HRT.
That's the most important thing, what corresponds to what I said earlier. All published on the Internet transition timelines should not be assumed HRT only by default.
Quote:It is to be noted that HRT introduces wrinkles and lines in the skin in contrast to the plastic surgery, which removes them.
In other words, if we see an "after", photo which has less wrinkles, than "before", plastic surgery was here (or PhotoShop, or beautification photo filters, or thick layers of make-up, or sticky tapes under the layers of make-up). It's not an HRT-only effect.
Also, aging is a very important factor here, and needs to be considered in the timelines. 5-7 years do change people appearance even without HRT or surgery.
We've just discussed it with my wife. All researches note psychological/mental effects of transitioning (including HRT). And the outer world, including our appearance, is a reflection of our internal world. E.g. a happy person looks and feels differently, than a sombre one. In regards to this, it would be very interesting to check the psychological effects of HRT in comparison to a group of people taking placebo pills. Not that it's possible to do, though, because of the involved time and ethics issues.
On delayed puberty.
"Role of estrogen on bone in the human male: insights from the natural models of congenital estrogen deficiency" 2001
https://doi.org/10.1016/S0303-7207(01)00446-4
Quote: A further fascinating question involves the role of sexual steroids in affecting the normal body proportions of the skeleton. Traditionally, it was thought that eunuchoid body habitus, i.e. a preferential growth of the arms and legs compared with the spine — comes from an impairment of androgen action. The finding of eunuchoid body proportions in men with congenital estrogen deficiency having normal or elevated testosterone serum levels implies that estrogens are involved in the establishment of the proportions of the growing skeleton.
. . .
In conclusion, estrogens seem to be the main sex steroid involved in the final phases of skeletal maturation and mineralization. This phenomenon takes longer in hypogonadal men and in patients with delayed puberty leading to eunuchoid body proportions and osteopenia as a result of insufficient availability of androgens for aromatization to estrogens.
Estrogen is the main sex steroids involved in the final phases of skeletal maturation (e.g. achievement and maintenance of peak bone mass, epiphyseal closure), even though the details of molecular estrogen action on epiphyseal closure and bone maturation remain to be elucidated. In fact, the exact mode and site of action of estrogens in the growing bone are not completely known.
In short, do not mess with hormones, we have no idea how it actually works.