(22 Feb 2020, 01:17 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Again with the cherry picking dude
What is not cherry picking?
(21 Feb 2020, 23:42 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Kim petras
... began hormone therapy at the age of 12(!). At 16yo she was the first in the world to have SRS at that age. Officially, she is the "world's youngest transsexual". So, who's cherry picking?
(22 Feb 2020, 01:26 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (21 Feb 2020, 23:42 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Kim petras
... began hormone therapy at the age of 12(!). At 16yo she was the first in the world to have SRS at that age. Officially, she is the "world's youngest transsexual". So, who's cherry picking?
Well she might be one out of pretty much most trans people then. most countries it's not even legal to do SRS or HRT until they hit 18
And yea you do Cherry pick. I just gave a few examples. a SRS does not change ANYTHING visual unless u look at a naked body from the front... or does SRS also thin the waist and possibly give u bigger boobs? 😁 I think not. And when i say u cherry pick to fit your personal view. which is wrongfully informed. or not wrongfully informed but not enough proper info maybe. U exclude "passable" if they have had Facial operations, If they started blockers at a young age and transitioned as early as the law would permit. The once who was unfortunate and had little effect from HRT. It's just silly how much u cherry pick. Sure we Transppl wanna look exactly like a biological perfect 10 beach model. but in the real life. there are even biological women who looks less like women than many trans people do. So i dont rly understand why you wanna cherry pick to fit something VERY specific of your own personal taste. If you wanna do that atleast mention that up front and it would be a whole new ordeal 😉 But the simple fact is that HRT does make a significant difference for MOST. not everyone, some are unlucky, some are doing it "to late" etc. but for MOST there is a big change. Just start checking it up and you will find out. Read/watch/listen to some proper research in the field, talk to an expert if anything. What you believe about HRT is only the case for some very few ppl where they have little change. But somehow u keep focusing and cherry picking out from that. Why? it's silly. I've allready linked you a pretty good quality properly made research done with many trans ppl going either way that disprove your personal throught about the mental change not being real when in fact it's a bigger difference than most expect. And that site has Many more things u can check up 😉
(22 Feb 2020, 01:45 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]a SRS does not change ANYTHING
Of course not. But FFS does.
(22 Feb 2020, 01:45 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]I just gave a few examples.
You gave three. One with FFS and HRT at 14, another one with HRT at 12, and the 3d one who a
eady looked like a girl. What do your examples prove?
(22 Feb 2020, 01:45 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]It's just silly how much u cherry pick. Sure we Transppl wanna look exactly like a biological perfect 10 beach model. but in the real life.
I don't "pick" anything, I reply to your "picks". And again, please paste the link to where I mentioned "biological perfect 10 beach model"?
OK, I mention "biological perfect 10 beach model" now 😁 If we have a 14yo "biological perfect 10 beach model", that "biological perfect 10 beach model" will look perfect as both make and female. No HRT/FFS required. This situation will change with age.
(22 Feb 2020, 01:45 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]there are even biological women who looks less like women than many trans people do.
Absolutely. This statement also proves my point.
(22 Feb 2020, 01:45 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]But the simple fact is that HRT does make a significant difference for MOST. ... but for MOST there is a big change.
Please links to proofs.
(22 Feb 2020, 01:45 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]not everyone, some are unlucky, some are doing it "too late"
Please define "too late". 18yo? 20yo? 25? 28? 40?
If you check the thread from the beginning, you might notice how enthusiastic I was about the transitioning several years ago. But the more I research the subject, the more sceptic I become. I'm happy to be proved wrong.
OK, let's make it simple. Can you find 3 examples of men, who looked like men ("were non-passable"), who began HRT after 28yo, did not have FFS and became passable. In other words, can HRT alone make 28+ yo man passable? You can "cherry pick" 😉
@
gunz - just showed your photos to my wife. She also said that you look like a pretty lady, and no HRT is needed.
(22 Feb 2020, 02:01 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]OK, let's make it simple. Can you find 3 examples of men, who looked like men ("were non-passable"), who began HRT after 28yo, did not have FFS and became passable. In other words, can HRT alone make 28+ yo man passable? You can "cherry pick" 😉
I have one for you. Transitioned at age 43, HRT only, did have bottom surgery, but no other surgeries at all.
[
attachment=39019] Age 42 picture
[
attachment=39018] Age 48, 5½ years of HRT, no surgery other than bottom surgery
(22 Feb 2020, 02:32 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]@gunz - just showed your photos to my wife. She also said that you look like a pretty lady, and no HRT is needed.
Lets put this dead. you personal opinion cannot be changed i allready gave one link that has several properly made research on the subject. I've mentioned 3 people where Kim petras is the only example i know of in the entire world that has been allowed SRS at the age of 16 and not 18 as is normal around the globe. You still keep cherry picking to suit your own personal opinion and that's okay. some of us are just to stubborn to be able to change their mind even when facts are staing them right down the eyes and is litterally all over the internetz xD It's awsome you think im passable and dont need HRT, but i bet to differ and any other transperson would aswell.. there is little to no damage that u somehow managed to mention that HRT is totally damaging for no apparent reason, nothing to show to, no reasearch to show for or anything just YOUR own words. And due to this debate here it seems you know very little about the subject as a WHOLE. So I feel this is like trying to debate to a brick wall or my own dad cuse he's just the same. Cant admit that he might have had the wrong info, been missinformed etc.
Also why do you keep latching onto the younger trans ppl? U do know that the differences between a girl and a boy before puberty VERY small when you look away from clothing style, hairstyle, and the exterior otherwise.
And why is an operation in the face so wrong? You do realise that when ppl undergo any kind of FFS. It seem you think that they FIX everything that can be worked on... Most ppl only get maybe 1-2 things done. Like a small upper lip lift or grinding of the adams apple. It's not like they ALL do cheecks, adams apple, jaw & jawline, grinding browbone, nosejob, lip lift, etc...
I really dont understand you fixations and the belief that HRT does nothing.
Also again HRT in MOST countries. atleast in the EU seems to be 20 actually and not 18. so once again you are wrong. Puberty blockers is NOT HRT. so please atleast admit you are wrong there and correct yourself there 😁
https://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/201...ne-therapy
This links shows the age limit in different countries. Norway is also under 18. ther eare only 3 countries that allow at the age of 16.
There are a few countries that MIGHT allowed even lower as mentioned. But they say nothing about the VERY VERY strict rules around it.
But as of now lets just put this dead. I belive I'm wrong. I have been properly educated by several professionals, I've seen good results myself from ppl online aswell a few I've met in person.
So please do not say HRT is close to useless and "damaging" when the fact from all sourcces so far is that it's not. It's the oposite. The "biggest" POSSIBLE "damaging" thing about HRT is the Testosterone blockers/reducers can be heavy on the livers. But if you are a healthy person and isnt an alcoholic. You'll be fine.