(03 Dec 2020, 03:05 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]A troll is someone who purposely ignores what is written, and uses manipulations to get the result, corresponding to the agenda: to get some fun out of a holy war, to get more hits or views, to induce propaganda ideas, etc.
It's sad Like Ra that you think this. I am in a very vulnerable position right now with my gender dysphoric feelings/ identity as a whole and to be told this is very disheartening. It hurts enough that I know that I will never be like those biological women, but it hurts even more when other people make it explicit. So I really don't know how to respond anymore without you assuming I am a troll deliberately misinterpreting what you write. I get no "fun" out of this, in fact I struggle daily with these feelings and so far this is the only place I can discuss them. But i'll leave if it makes you happy that a "troll" is no longer around.
(02 Dec 2020, 23:34 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fine with having minor plastic surgery if it would help me to pass better. I don't think there is anything wrong with that because many biological women do that as well if they perceive that they were born with less than feminine features.
Yes. I always point this fact. Why would it be a problem for trans to have surgery to allow their body to be more in adequacy with their gender, while there are plenty of cis-(men and women) also having surgery to go more in adequacy with their gender.
If a women (or a man) wants breast surgery or nose/mouth/hip/facial/sexual (and the whole other lot)... to be more "feminine" (or "masculine"), nobody bothers (and sometimes a lot of "unnecessary" surgery is done in such purpose), while if a transwomen wants to have surgery for the very same reason then people go yelling this is unnatural...
Same with hormones... If a women uses hormones to control her period/skin problem/protect herself (or if a man uses hormones to grown muscles, ...), everything's fine while if a trans women (man) uses hormones to control her (his) body(...)
(03 Dec 2020, 03:06 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]You have to click on the quote button durectly under the highlighted text, otherwise the quotation will be wrong
Ahhhh, the highlighted text... I finally understand why most of the time, the quote button does not work... I was certain this button was buggy and never thought of hightailing the "to be quoted" text...
(02 Dec 2020, 23:15 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ] (21 May 2014, 14:26 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ] (21 May 2014, 00:13 )Tinker D Wrote: [ -> ]Yes and no. It depends on the doctor and the amount you have.
Also it's the country you live in.
I have seen good ones and really bad ones as well.
And your not alone, I would love to have an inverted penis. But I was told that to keep it in shape, you'll have to wear a dildo almost all the time, or at lease every night when you sleep.
Seen good and bad as well.
The "dildos" are stents, used in progressing sizes after surgery to aid the formation and keep it from collapsing and "sticking" to itself. Usually done for only a period of months, though those who are post op I know who aren't very sexually active will use the stents off and on. So far only one post op friend has had problems with the vagina (think that is from her not using the stents as often as she should have after surgery...)
Can you still have orgasm after SRS?
Many have said they have experienced. Won't be the same, of course.
(03 Dec 2020, 00:27 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]On the wiki page for "trans woman", the definition begins with "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth."
Here's another definition of trans-woman from wiki:
"Trans women have a male sex assignment at birth that does not align with their gender identity,[3] while intersex women were born with sex characteristics that do not fit typical notions of female biology."
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]You left off "Typically" at the beginning of that sentence so it should be "Typically, a woman has two X chromosomes and is capable of pregnancy and giving birth from puberty until menopause." This one word carries a lot of weight here and drastically changes the rest of the sentence.
Agree. Some women can not give birth, some women do not have uterus, etc. These are pathologies, when they accumulate, the person moved to the intersex category. So, I do not see that it contradicts what I wrote. Women are still determined by anatomy and physiology.
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]how can we define that one is a woman and one is not based on anatomy?
OK, what would you call a person with XY chromosomes, penis, testicles, no ovaries, no uterus, no tail, no fur, who walks on two legs, but calls "itself" a cat? I think it's cat, what do you think?
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]So we're going to use your rules to define everything?
Using wiki is not "my" rules. I would actually prefer to use medical encyclopedias for that, but I can't find any publicly available.
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]If we go back to the wiki definition of trans woman, we can see that the full sentence is "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth" We can substitute other subjects and objects into that sentence and come out with the same implication that A is a subset of B. Let's try that with established examples: "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth" -- "A Dutch citizen is a human who was born in the Netherlands" -- "Light blue is a blue that is lighter than blue". As absurd and circular of a definition as that last example is to type or say out loud, it's still true and fits with the theme of establishing "A is a subset of B".
This is a perfect example of a bad definition, where you see a recursion. Hence, the definition "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth" can not be used.
Also, based on this definition, Men is also a subset of Women, because men are also assigned male at birth.
So what am I? My chromosomes are neither "distinctly male nor female" according to the 4 tests that were done on me. CHROMOSOMES ARE NOT A FULLY DEFINING THING!!! There is a myriad of combinations.
(03 Dec 2020, 03:05 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 02:39 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]Funny how if anyone disagrees with you or challenges your motives/statements, you call them a troll.
A troll is someone who purposely ignores what is written, and uses manipulations to get the result, corresponding to the agenda: to get some fun out of a holy war, to get more hits or views, to induce propaganda ideas, etc.
Also, you use a typical manipulation technique, called "generalisation" - you said "anyone", what implies, that I called princesitanatty, gunz, vanessa, essanym trolls as well. However, it did not happen, hence your claim is false.
Then, I did not call you a troll, I said, that "I'm beginning to think, that you are one of the SJW trolls", and I explaned why. If you missed it - it looks, like you purposely misinterpret what I write, and keep saying the same phrases again and again, accusing me in what I never wrote (another manipulation technique).
You may simply genuinely misinterpret my posts, hence my long explanations on what I meant, assuming, that you are not a troll.
Then you are a troll by your definition. You're trying to manipulate her and others to your corresponding agenda. How about you excuse yourself from the discussion instead.
Or just please close the thread.
I think that it is better that everybody calms down a bit.
Although very informative, this discussion has been going on
at a breath taking pace. From the words one cannot always tell
under how much stress the participants are operating after a
day hard work, family problems or whatever. Also, do not forget
that there are time differences involved.
Suggestion: for now, do not post more than once per hour in this
thread. This gives time to think whether the arguments were
properly understood.
(03 Dec 2020, 03:29 )Hazel Wrote: [ -> ]Now who is the one making outrageous (+ inappropriate) assumptions and misinterpreting what I said. This is not the reason why I am on this thread!
I bet you "inferred" something again.
(03 Dec 2020, 19:13 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]So what am I? My chromosomes are neither "distinctly male nor female" according to the 4 tests that were done on me. CHROMOSOMES ARE NOT A FULLY DEFINING THING!!! There is a myriad of combinations.
Yes, it's a combination of factors, never just a single one. Most likely you belong to the intersex group, but this group is being redefined constantly as new information is being discovered. Any classification contains generalizations and simplifications, hence every classification is inherently wrong. However, additional gradations would make government's work much more difficult, so it's extremely unlikely they will go for it. As far as I know, currently there are 3 official sexes: M, F and X.