(11 Feb 2023, 23:38 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (11 Feb 2023, 17:51 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]nd wayyyyyy cheaper than the U$A so big pharma doesn't get as much.
Yeah, I checked the US prices.
(11 Feb 2023, 17:51 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]One thing that is most expensive? Hair removal.
And hair removal prices were not in my list 😁 But the face surgery was in the list.
Hair removal, especially facial, is a must whereas facial surgery isn't really. Sure, some may need a new nose or a brow bone shave, but generally the vast majority of us do not have facial surgery. (And I've seen some seriously botched jobs - they look less female and more comic)
(10 Feb 2023, 19:01 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ] (10 Feb 2023, 09:06 )Zooy Wrote: [ -> ] (10 Feb 2023, 00:26 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]So much of that is very explainable.
Only noticed once they came out? Duh, vast majority of parents do not realize we're trans that young, and back in my day we kept it hidden. So the parents only realize when the trans child comes out. Yes, it is as simple as that and doesn't need any research.
Increased internet use? Of course, again, duh. The trans child is searching for more information, they have feelings and issues they need answers to, to ensure them that yes, it is normal. And to search out SUPPORT systems.
So it is thereby logical that yes, trans children will get their info more from trans support sites and trans people and groups rather than doctors themselves. WHY? You may ask? The medical community a) still treats us as having a mental disorder b) does not have a unified consensus on how to deal with trans, let alone trans children and c) they protect their ass. Even today, for ME, I still can't find a family doctor that accepts trans patients, and that is in Montreal, Canada!!! Home of the best SRS surgeon and in a country that is more "accepting" (yeah.... no. Reality? I face death more now than I did in war)
Was that info peer reviewed btw?
Just out of curiosity, because I would like to understand this:
Can you also explain why this happens in groups?
Does the group exist before the trans feeling or only after?
Before. Sometimes the person may not have it fully formed that they are, and seek to find the answers. They know they're different. But generally, in my now decades of experience, they know, they just want to seek support. Family often do not "get it" and have trouble with it. Friends, the same. It's like a gamer seeking out those like them etc. It's what is happening.
Support groups, advocacy groups, etc, for trans are just like any support or advocacy group.
People come together in groups. We have Muslims in Muslim groups, we have leathermen in leathermen groups, we have Chinese in Chinese groups. We have knitters in knitters groups.
The right wing tends to give groups they don't like bad press, make them look evil etc, when they're not.
A lot of what Vennessa has said resonates with me as well. Growing up in the 1970's and early 80's the language of transgender term was not fully there, but the feelings were certainly there of feeling like a girl in a somewhat boy body. (I was born intersex but did not know it at the time.)
This whole concept of rapid onset gender dysphoria is a conservative talking point. The contradiction is that it is not that more people or teens have dysphoria, it is simply more visible.
There was a time when less than 2% of the population was left handed because due to religious and/or culture reason, being left handed was seen as evil or dirty. So as a child left handed people for forced to use their right hand for writing, etc. In the last 80 year, scientists realized that there is a brain distinction of left and right-handed people, and the world started accepting people being left handed. Over that time the number of left handed people grew from 2% to 10-12%. It was not a case of more left handed people being born, it was the acceptance of being left-handed and not being vonverted that led to the increase. The same thing is happening with gender dysphoria / transgenderism.
(12 Feb 2023, 22:25 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]This whole concept of rapid onset gender dysphoria is a conservative talking point.
You can't ignore campaigns and waves of interests. Whether it's BLM, climate, TG, pacifists, religious activity or peaks in, say, hypno or BDSM activities. Right before the corona years, we had waves of various "cancel cultures" related to TG, BLM, and climate. Where's BLM now? Are any "TG wokes" still cancelling JK Rowling?
From what I understand, the article above touches some correlations, related to "echo rooms", "bulks" and "waves". And I wonder what causes them. Some campaigns are consciously ignited for various reasons and by different organizations, some are "self organized" (I deliberately ignore collective (un)conscious aka egregors).
(12 Feb 2023, 23:12 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (12 Feb 2023, 22:25 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]This whole concept of rapid onset gender dysphoria is a conservative talking point.
You can't ignore campaigns and waves of interests. Whether it's BLM, climate, TG, pacifists, religious activity or peaks in, say, hypno or BDSM activities. Right before the corona years, we had waves of various "cancel cultures" related to TG, BLM, and climate. Where's BLM now? Are any "TG wokes" still cancelling JK Rowling?
From what I understand, the article above touches some correlations, related to "echo rooms", "bulks" and "waves". And I wonder what causes them. Some campaigns are consciously ignited for various reasons and by different organizations, some are "self organized" (I deliberately ignore collective (un)conscious aka egregors).
BLM is still strong in the US. Antifa is less, but it is coming back. The media (news and social media) blows things up on both sides. Maybe less than 10% of the trans community really cares about JK Rowling. The media would make you think 99% of the trans community is out to get her. Most, including myself, are disappointed, but she has the right to believe in what she wants and really don't care. I am not going to tell people they can't enjoy the Hogwarts games or watch the movies. (I still enjoy the movies as watching does support the actors.)
Right now in the US there has been a slew of anit-trans legislation in 30 states (over 220 proposed laws) that is being processed. Most are aimed at trans youth and State Medicare (our health system is messed up here) not covering gender-affirming care. (Federal is still protected.) So JK Rowing is not a big topic here at the moment.
I have worked with PFLAG (and US Non-profit Organization for the Parents, Families and Friends of LGBTQ+) for 9 years co facilitating support groups for parents and family of trans kids and trans partners. (Most youth are 13-24 years old.) I know what gender-affirming care looks like from a medical, and social view and there is so much misinformation out there that conservatives are using to support these anti-trans bills/legislation. Surgeries are not performed on minors except for very few exceptions (like 6 cases a year nationally) where they were for female to male top surgeries done at age 17 with parental consent and after years of seeing therapists.
What is happening in Florida with Führer DeSantis is scary. (Looking a lot like Fascism at this point.) It has a
eady been exposed that the so-called information they used to justify outlawing gender-affirming care in for trans youth in Florida was from a conservative think tank opinion and not science based. Peered reviewed study and study supports gender-affirming care for gender dysphoria, but the far right does not care. The testimony of these kids, and parents and adult trans individuals testifying against these laws, is heart-wrenching. These laws will eventually get struck down in federal court (some a
eady have but are being appealed), but if Trump or DeSantis wins 2024, I am not sure what is going to happen here in the US.
The good news is at least BDSM has not been in the news are become a talking point.
Things we think are new or "now more popular" aren't exactly. BDSM for instance. Been around for centuries when you really look at it. Seems moreso now because of a) the internet and b) soccer moms being turned on by bad mom pron in the shape of 50 shades lol.
As for Rowling, she's a TERF, and needs to be held accountable. She's free to think what she wants, but when you are especially a public figure you need to be held accountable for what you say. It's NO different than if she had said stuff like slavery of blacks should still happen. Or espoused Nazi views. If those last two are wrong, why take issue with trans taking shots at her? There'd be NO backlash against a black person attacking her for anti-black stuff, nor against a jew for Nazi stuff. It's not "cancel culture" or "wokeness" - two alt right terms btw - it's called being held accountable ffs.
I fear for my trans friends in the U$A and UK. Both having their own anti-trans movements really gaining speed, and anti-trans legislation coming in. With more and more of us verbally harassed more and physically attacked more.
Those of lower IQ tend to fear what they cannot comprehend, and thus attack it. Because they're afraid to admit that it is beyond their tiny little minds. Thus a phobia
(13 Feb 2023, 20:01 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]As for Rowling, she's a TERF, and needs to be held accountable. She's free to think what she wants, but when you are especially a public figure you need to be held accountable for what you say.
What did she say, that supposed to sound sacrilegious? I searched, but could not find anything wrong.
(13 Feb 2023, 20:01 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]Both having their own anti-trans movements really gaining speed,
I think we discussed it. Looks like a backlash after a huge hype.
Rowling's stuff is mostly on Twitter, but she has posted and continues to post a lot about how trans women are not 'real' women and it's offensive to women that trans people are, for example, allowed to use women's toilet facilities. There's worse but if you scroll back through her Twitter timeline you'll find it.
(13 Feb 2023, 22:05 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]Rowling's stuff is mostly on Twitter, but she has posted and continues to post a lot about how trans women are not 'real' women
As far as I remember, her statement was absolutely correct. Those, who complain about the statement, confuse "sex" and "gender". It was discussed in details half a thread ago.
And .... "continues"? "A lot"? Really?
(13 Feb 2023, 22:05 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]offensive to women that trans people are, for example, allowed to use women's toilet facilities.
From what I remember, she never said that, and was "loosely translated" with this generalization. It was about the boys in UK schools, who used the TG hype to sneak into girls toilets and girls dormitories. Girls' parents were deeply in shock, when teachers explained them, that if a boy wants to be a girl today, he .... ehhem... that is ... she ... today ... must be able to sleep with girls.
In Sweden, "the problem" was quietly solved by making all toilets unisex. Not sure about dormitories, though...
(14 Feb 2023, 00:36 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (13 Feb 2023, 22:05 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]Rowling's stuff is mostly on Twitter, but she has posted and continues to post a lot about how trans women are not 'real' women
As far as I remember, her statement was absolutely correct. Those, who complain about the statement, confuse "sex" and "gender". It was discussed in details half a thread ago.
And .... "continues"? "A lot"? Really?
(13 Feb 2023, 22:05 )davinasissynw Wrote: [ -> ]offensive to women that trans people are, for example, allowed to use women's toilet facilities.
From what I remember, she never said that, and was "loosely translated" with this generalization. It was about the boys in UK schools, who used the TG hype to sneak into girls toilets and girls dormitories. Girls' parents were deeply in shock, when teachers explained them, that if a boy wants to be a girl today, he .... ehhem... that is ... she ... today ... must be able to sleep with girls.
In Sweden, "the problem" was quietly solved by making all toilets unisex. Not sure about dormitories, though...
Her statement was not correct. There are women born as women who do not menstruate, so does that make them not a woman? Since she uses that as a feeble argument.
My chromosomes are neither distinctly male nor distinctly female (the military did the test 4 times when I started transition). So what does that make me? Does that make me less female? But that can't be, because I'm also "less male". Sex and gender are not so easily defined anymore and we have to STOP thinking the old way.
True, on one hand, all classifications are wrong by nature, because in most cases there is no sharp dividing line between "the neighbours" (any examples of the opposite?). However, even in the MIF world (Male, Intersex, Female), there are certain sets of criteria that make classification IN MOST CASES possible. Typical example, "usually", skeletons can be reliably identified as either M of F. If there is something "atypical", then it's by definition can not be considered as "normal" (in Gauss sense), and can not be easily classified.
Edit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_determ...on_(human)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differ...Physiology
(14 Feb 2023, 17:01 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]we have to STOP thinking the old way.
Is there a "scientifically and medically approved" new way?
(BTW, is "medicine" a science? In the US definition?)
Edit: aha, officially, it's a combination of practices and sciences.