Like Ra's Naughty Forum

(21 Feb 2020, 00:52 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 00:18 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Operation only gives u boobs and/or a vagina.

Those two are not much important, especially under the clothes. I mean facial feminization surgery.

-Facial feminization surgery is often only grinding down adams apple for those who have big apples, maybe a small nosejob due to insecurities and also some get the bone behind the eyebrow grinded down due to many men having a very neandertall bone structure. If u look a woman from the side and a man from the side u can clearly see a bump on the guys on the eyebrows before it goes in to the eyes. on females there is no bump there at all.

(21 Feb 2020, 00:52 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 00:18 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Cant change the mental with that.

The mental difference between men and women are greatly exaggerated. There is much more difference between individual people, than between men and women in general. Men can be emotional and emphatic, and women can be thinking (not emotion) driven, vicious, cruel, and non caring.

-Sure men can be enphatic and woman can be cruel. I mean in the way we think. It's hard to explain but when u go through it's a clear difference. umm It's like where a guy has one way to get from A to B and a girl uses another path from A to B. Or for example when we look at a dress in a store window. A guy might think. That would look good on my GF. nothing much else goes behind that thought, where as a girl probably has a lot more thoughts about the dress, like that color would match my heels well and would be perfect for this and that events. and it should compliment my forms too. Maybe a bad example but there is clear differences. But hard to get into the mindset about the whole ordeal if u are not a transperson who is going through it, and not knowing every little detail about the entire process 😊

(21 Feb 2020, 00:52 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 00:18 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]It does not change the Fat redistribution that does give a BIG visual difference when the HRT has done it's full work.

You said, that waist will not be reduced, so there is not much redistribution, but rather adding to other places as well. For skinny person that does not apply.
and non caring.

-SO u think all fat on a guy is around the belly area? HAHA 😁 sorry but that i find funny. Sure it might be an area that often has more than others but in general men have a very even fat distribution as where women have more in the thighs, ass, and upper arms, and sometimes breast area. So when fat redistributes of course u might loose some from the belly. But if u are a fat dude, and do not do anything to try to change that, U will still be a fat woman afterward. It wont magically just remove ALL the fat around the stomach and put it in the ass xD That's what operations can do if u wish for something like that. So if u look at any MtF person from start to finish you will see a big difference unless the person is dangerously overweight or underweight, and in the EU u arnt even allowed on HRT if you are very overweight or underweight due to other issues that might occur. So problems connected to that is what u often see from the US. Or ppl that started HRT when being more or less close to a normal BMI then got fat due to the pills. A woman puts on weight A LOT faster than guys.

(21 Feb 2020, 00:52 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 00:18 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Same goes for the smaller changes to your face.

True, it "should" become softer and rounder. But some timelines show no difference at all. Regardless weight. For overweight persons HRT makes no difference at all. Also for some types of skinny ones.

- the facial changes happens regardless. But again it's often up to luck and genetics as with everything else. Not all Biological woman has perfect hourglass forms and a "perfect" face xD 

(21 Feb 2020, 00:52 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 00:18 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]And u cannot stop balding with an operation, sure u can operate some back in but u will still be balding after Xamount of years

As you said, no hair will be recovered, but the baldness will be slowed down. OK, one positive factor 😉

- allready mention so many other positive and noticable effects 😉 But i know it's hard to get into it when it's something that is not for you 😊 

(21 Feb 2020, 00:52 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 00:18 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]And if it helps me become more like a woman, u can be dammed sure I will do it

Yes, HRT works more psychologically (in terms "I'm doing something to become more female", what "produces" more "happiness"), and oficially (because without HRT doctors will not do anything else). Not sure about the documents, though.

- It works for body and mind. simple fact even if u belive otherwise. There will be big differences from person to person, often it depends again on genetics and what u look like when u start HRT.
But there is always big differences from start to finish.
I'm sorry this isnt the wonderpill/s for stomach fat that it seems u focus on. This is not for that but for something completely different 😁

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Facial feminization surgery

Some time ago I stumbled upon this Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_fem...on_surgery

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]I mean in the way we think. It's hard to explain but when u go through it's a clear difference. umm It's like where a guy has one way to get from A to B and a girl uses another path from A to B.

It turned out that the "sex/gender related behaviour is bound to the "social sex/gender expectations and norms". As soon as the "social factor" was removed from the experiments, women showed exactly the same behaviour as men.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Or for example when we look at a dress in a store window. A guy might think.

Depends on the personal interests, hobbies, fetishes, profession, society the person belongs to, etc.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe a bad example but there is clear differences.

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but there is no clear difference in mentalities and thinking process. (There are some lectures by the neuroscientists on Youtube). Again, especially if you remove the "society factor".

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]A woman puts on weight A LOT faster than guys.

I'm not sure about that either. Yes, the tendencies are different. Any links to researches? I've seen various cases. It's all about personal metabolism and life style. And it changes dramatically even for the same person over time. So, the individual differences are still more significant. My point is that HRT does not "solve" this problem, and "that fat person" still has to reconsider the diet and physical exercises.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]But again it's often up to luck and genetics as with everything else. Not all Biological woman has perfect hourglass forms and a "perfect" face

Yep, my point exactly, so HRT is not an answer here as well.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]But i know it's hard to get into it when it's something that is not for you

Actually, I came to the conclusion, that in most of the cases HRT is useless and harmful, after checking hundreds of timeline, and studies about the differences between men and women (I pasted some links in this thread above). The results of "my meta-investigation" are extremely disappointing. Virtually all more or less successful MtF transitions (passability-wise) happened thanks to the facial surgery. In other words, if you aeady do not look like a girl, the only way to look like a girl is FFS.

I would greatly appreciate if you link successful FFS-free transition timelines.

And if we come to the fundamental differences between men and women (XX vs XY, skeletons, internal organs, etc) then no HRT or SRS can cover for them. Initial mother-child relations are due to the oxytocin storm, which creates an imprint (or anchor, or trigger), monthly health issues (no woman like! this is not something that anybody would want!) are due to other hormonal storms and internal differences.

So, that's my point: if you aeady look like a woman, HRT might fill in some "details" to "enhance" the look. If you do not look like a woman, HRT will not help. Only surgery can radically change it. And in both cases HRT creates much more physical health problems, than solves.

My next point is that the most of the gender issues is social.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry this isnt the wonderpill/s for stomach fat

😟
😁

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]But there is always big differences from start to finish.

That's exactly what I don't see in the timelines. Again, WITHOUT surgery.

Another interesting question. What "typical female mannerism", body posture and gestures are caused by anatomy and what by socialization, social influences, norms and expectations?

(21 Feb 2020, 22:30 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry this isnt the wonderpill/s for stomach fat

😟
😁

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]But there is always big differences from start to finish.

That's exactly what I don't see in the  timelines. Again, WITHOUT surgery.

Well again sorry it's not something completely different that what it is. It's hormonetreatment, it's not a magic waist thinning pill xD

Here's a link to a proper study for the Mental part If you still dont belive that there is close to no changes. I wanted to add something here but it might be a bit "out of place" so im choosing not to.
hope the link works. It should be the PDF file in the link if you are interested in reading some proper documented studies 😊 
I'll see if i can find something different for the physical changes aswell sins u seem to focus on the boobs xD and that is somehow 90% of a womans look it seems  😕

http://www.hbrs.no/informasjon/forskning/

Norwegian site.. So I hope u can see the PDF file if u click on the link. (it's the first PDF they are named and written in english of course) xD if u dont understand norwegian it might be hard to navigate haha.
There are also other documented studies on this site if u scroll down, all seem to be in english 😉

(21 Feb 2020, 23:04 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Another interesting question. What "typical female mannerism", body posture and gestures are caused by anatomy and what by socialization, social influences, norms and expectations?

Body posture is whatever you make it to. If u sit a lot infront of the computer u will most likely develop an arced back or a "lazy posture" it's nothing socializm does, nor influences or norms. But gestures and the way you act around others are very often influenced by others and how you yourself feel around others.

Oh and there arnt any "huge" diffrences that is needed anywhere for one to completely change a look. It's all the small differences that makes the change 😉 If anyone really belive there is little to no change on  a body neither Mentally nor Physically when going through HRT. They really havnt seen much 😁 Better start googling, youtubing, watch some documentaries, read some research etc 😉 Or as a professional about it.
Many small things makes a Big difference 😉

(21 Feb 2020, 21:50 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Facial feminization surgery

Some time ago I stumbled upon this Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_fem...on_surgery

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]I mean in the way we think. It's hard to explain but when u go through it's a clear difference. umm It's like where a guy has one way to get from A to B and a girl uses another path from A to B.

It turned out that the "sex/gender related behaviour is bound to the "social sex/gender expectations and norms". As soon as the "social factor" was removed from the experiments, women showed exactly the same behaviour as men.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Or for example when we look at a dress in a store window. A guy might think.

Depends on the personal interests, hobbies, fetishes, profession, society the person belongs to, etc.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe a bad example but there is clear differences.

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but there is no clear difference in mentalities and thinking process. (There are some lectures by the neuroscientists on Youtube). Again, especially if you remove the "society factor".

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]A woman puts on weight A LOT faster than guys.

I'm not sure about that either. Yes, the tendencies are different. Any links to researches? I've seen various cases. It's all about personal metabolism and life style. And it changes dramatically even for the same person over time. So, the individual differences are still more significant. My point is that HRT does not "solve" this problem, and "that fat person" still has to reconsider the diet and physical exercises.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]But again it's often up to luck and genetics as with everything else. Not all Biological woman has perfect hourglass forms and a "perfect" face

Yep, my point exactly, so HRT is not an answer here as well.

(21 Feb 2020, 09:26 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]But i know it's hard to get into it when it's something that is not for you

Actually, I came to the conclusion, that in most of the cases HRT is useless and harmful, after checking hundreds of timeline, and studies about the differences between men and women (I pasted some links in this thread above). The results of "my meta-investigation" are extremely disappointing. Virtually all more or less successful MtF transitions (passability-wise) happened thanks to the facial surgery. In other words, if you aeady do not look like a girl, the only way to look like a girl is FFS.

I would greatly appreciate if you link successful FFS-free transition timelines.

 here is one 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf0CRezZYOUcvqrdMmozowQ
Also check out Nikkitutorials on youtube. she is also a transwoman. that's 2 right on top of my head 😉 Also a Kim petras or something, think she is german/dutch or something around dwon there. also Transwoman. And in general like a good 75% of anyone who transition before they are 25-30 and a good 99% of those who start with blockers for puberty and HRT at 18

I think we will just have to agree to disagree. You think there is absolutely no change pretty much unless u get implants and facial surgery. which says a lot from my stand point xD sry aboot that. And the fact that you constantly went back to almost hoping the HRT was a magical treatment for a thinner waistline is also very wierd. And you say you have done "A LOT" of research on the subject. I would personally say you have done a very poor job or not rly put yourself into it other than the first 1-3 random links u found on google 😁