(04 Dec 2020, 02:30 )Tinker D Wrote: [ -> ]Women can shoot Daggers from their eyes.
( not really Daggers, but the look in a female eyes when she is really pissed ).
Women have softer skin than a man.
If a men don't want to speak and express it anger, I bet there is as much dagger...
Softer skin? Even full body shaved? On what research?
Ok, maybe it’s just me then. But even my female friend that lives in the desert, a stage 3 cancer survivor, that had everything that made her female, and I mean everything, has way softer skin than I do.
As for the Daggers, I have seen women very pissed off. In the arcades, pizza parlors and other amusement places.
And yes, men do smell bad, can’t keep their legs together, unless bound with rope or tight leather straps, and at times say embarrassing things at the worst times.
I wish I could remember where I read that females has an extra layer of fat or skin or some kind of scientific name that makes their skin soft without marinating the self’s in what I would call Heinz-57 female barbecue sauce.
As I asked before, Please Don’t Take This The Wrong Way.
(03 Dec 2020, 23:11 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 19:24 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ]Then you are a troll by your definition. You're trying to manipulate her and others to your corresponding agenda.
Any proofs?
Ra, just have to look at what and how you post on this subject.
(04 Dec 2020, 00:46 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]OK, let's brainstorm this (can be a separate thread). In psychology when parties are talking about common "empty", not clearly defined or impossible to verbalize subjects, they say - replace the nouns with verbs. So, here's the question:
What do men and women do differently? What do women do? (Apart from wearing women's clothes and make-up, please). Let's imagine a healthy woman with no pathologies (to avoid possible collisions). Also, please avoid social expectations!!!
For example:
- women give births
- women bleed once a month
- women move differently, than men (have different plastic, can you rephraze?)
- women keep their legs together (knees and/or feet)
- women keep their elbows tucked and at the angle (carrying angle)
Mostly these are generalizations.
Not all women give birth. There are also women who do not "bleed once a month".
The last three are definitely generalizations.
Ok, on my last post, a section is missing.
Maybe because I’m using an apple.
But like I stated, my female friend had stage 3 Cancer. And everything that made her female was REMOVED.
She has..... No breasts, No vagina, No ovaries, nothing but a tube to piss through.
But I like her. And she has the softest skin.
(04 Dec 2020, 01:18 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Have you (@Hazel) asked yourself the question "Why?"
Yes, I have and it's because you are stuck in biological/gender essentialism. You think that the most valid and acceptable definition of a woman can only be given to biological females. Because not once have you ever considered that transwomen can be part of the female spectrum. In fact i don't even know what you think transwomen are then! That's fine, it's an old school way of thinking but it's slowly changing. Not everyone agrees with your position and some people (and other biological women too!) see transwomen as "real" (sad i have to use this term) women.
I respect your differing perspective on transwomen, but just know that it's your opinion, not the truth and its says more about yourself and any discord you have in your own mind.
As for my "inferrences", it's called inductive reasoning, not being a troll or stupid. So no need to break down the metaphors for me in brackets, I get them fully, but I do know where you are going with them along with your arguments and that is a logical crusade to undermine trans identities. In fact, this is what this thread has become. Ask others if you don't believe me.
So I don't wish to continue participating in this discussion as no amount of intellectual arguments or persuasion will make me "reconsider" my gender feelings, because its not possible to change who you are!
(03 Dec 2020, 19:13 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 00:27 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]On the wiki page for "trans woman", the definition begins with "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth."
Here's another definition of trans-woman from wiki:
"Trans women have a male sex assignment at birth that does not align with their gender identity,[3] while intersex women were born with sex characteristics that do not fit typical notions of female biology."
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]You left off "Typically" at the beginning of that sentence so it should be "Typically, a woman has two X chromosomes and is capable of pregnancy and giving birth from puberty until menopause." This one word carries a lot of weight here and drastically changes the rest of the sentence.
Agree. Some women can not give birth, some women do not have uterus, etc. These are pathologies, when they accumulate, the person moved to the intersex category. So, I do not see that it contradicts what I wrote. Women are still determined by anatomy and physiology.
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]how can we define that one is a woman and one is not based on anatomy?
OK, what would you call a person with XY chromosomes, penis, testicles, no ovaries, no uterus, no tail, no fur, who walks on two legs, but calls "itself" a cat? I think it's cat, what do you think?
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]So we're going to use your rules to define everything?
Using wiki is not "my" rules. I would actually prefer to use medical encyclopedias for that, but I can't find any publicly available.
(02 Dec 2020, 23:43 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ]If we go back to the wiki definition of trans woman, we can see that the full sentence is "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth" We can substitute other subjects and objects into that sentence and come out with the same implication that A is a subset of B. Let's try that with established examples: "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth" -- "A Dutch citizen is a human who was born in the Netherlands" -- "Light blue is a blue that is lighter than blue". As absurd and circular of a definition as that last example is to type or say out loud, it's still true and fits with the theme of establishing "A is a subset of B".
This is a perfect example of a bad definition, where you see a recursion. Hence, the definition "A trans woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth" can not be used.
Also, based on this definition, Men is also a subset of Women, because men are also assigned male at birth.
So what am I? My chromosomes are neither "distinctly male nor female" according to the 4 tests that were done on me. CHROMOSOMES ARE NOT A FULLY DEFINING THING!!! There is a myriad of combinations.
I have the same question... Let's see,
- I was assigned male at birth but born with ambiguous genitalia and surgically corrected to appear more male (most likely caused by DES given to my mother she was pregnant with me.)
(more about DES here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_defe...rentiation )
- I had an awkward puberty with low testosterone and feminine shaped hips and narrow shoulders
- I am very tall at 6'5" (196cm) but smaller than average feet for my height (US Men 11.5 / US Women 13)
- When I started transitioning with HRT, my doctor suspected an intersex condition and found out I was mosaic XX/XY/XXY
- Transitioned to female at age 43 (7 years ago) and passed (blended) without any issues after just 3-4 months on HRT.
- Had SRS at age 47 (3 years ago) AND YES I CAN ORGASM without any issues. My surgeon also found evidence of previous surgeries down there.
- I pass perfectly fine even though I am very tall, but my body shape, mannerisms and voice are feminine.
I see myself as a woman who has a trans history. I was assigned the improper gender and sex at birth and still use trans since I had to transition medically and socially to a different gender I was assigned at birth.
I call my transition a complete success. I have changed out of my swimwear in front of other women (after swimming at a pool) and no one saw or treated me any differently than any other woman.
(03 Dec 2020, 23:39 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 02:17 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 02:05 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 01:53 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]OK, do you agree, that "A=B" and "A is B" are two different statements, because "A=B" assumes "B=A", but "A is B" does not assume "B is A"? Hence, "transwoman=woman" and "transwoman is woman" are two different statements?
For me, the two are interchangeable. For example, I might say that 2+2 is 4 instead of 2+2 = 4. Maybe this is just a regional English dialect difference I have.
If they were logically interchangable, then you would effectively claim, that woman=transwoman, what is a nonsense. "IS" is a replacement of "⊂" symbol.
To rephrase: A⊂B is different from A=B.
To continue. All the "transwoman vs woman" problems arise because people compare "colours" with "weight".
Quoting myself:
(10 Nov 2020, 19:31 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Sex (a set of physical characteristics) ≠ Gender (non-physical mental feature)
None of the above defines the Sexual Orientation. Scientifically proved.
Sex is a constant, permanent feature given at birth, sorry (unless you achieve the level above the 3D-space-time limitations)
The rest can change.
Woman/man terms are related to sex
Transwoman/transmen terms are related to gender
Hence the statement "transwoman is woman" makes no sense, because it literally means "gender is sex", what is wrong.
Just in case, I'm using the following wiki-definition of a transwoman:
"Trans women have a male sex assignment at birth that does not align with their gender identity"
Sex is not necessarily fixed. Sex can certainly change in some species in a lifetime like Clown Fish and Frogs. (and through medical science, humans)
What scientifically is Sex?
Sex refers to a set of biological attributes in humans and animals. It is primarily associated with physical and physiological features including chromosomes, gene expression, hormone levels and function, and reproductive/sexual anatomy. (In other words, sex is the observed characteristics of humans and animals)
When someone medically transitions, the majority of these characteristics can change. Chromosomes obviously can not change but they alone can not define the sex of a person. They are simply roadmaps the mother nature will overlook sometimes. (
Like XY women who have given birth)
So a trans woman who fully transitions can change their sex. No all women have ovaries and can give birth and not all men can produce sperm and fertilize an egg CIS or TRANS.
(06 Dec 2020, 06:50 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]I see myself as a woman who has a trans history.
Yes that's the way I see myself as well. I don't like the additional trans label, but biologically it is what it is so the label is necessary.
(06 Dec 2020, 06:50 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]I call my transition a complete success. I have changed out of my swimwear in front of other women (after swimming at a pool) and no one saw or treated me any differently than any other woman.
I hope to reach your level of being able to pass one day 😊 I am a competitive swimmer and I used the men's changeroom all my life, so a new changing environment would be very awkward especially if I didn't fit in.
(06 Dec 2020, 07:08 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 23:39 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 02:17 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 02:05 )essanym Wrote: [ -> ] (03 Dec 2020, 01:53 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]OK, do you agree, that "A=B" and "A is B" are two different statements, because "A=B" assumes "B=A", but "A is B" does not assume "B is A"? Hence, "transwoman=woman" and "transwoman is woman" are two different statements?
For me, the two are interchangeable. For example, I might say that 2+2 is 4 instead of 2+2 = 4. Maybe this is just a regional English dialect difference I have.
If they were logically interchangable, then you would effectively claim, that woman=transwoman, what is a nonsense. "IS" is a replacement of "⊂" symbol.
To rephrase: A⊂B is different from A=B.
To continue. All the "transwoman vs woman" problems arise because people compare "colours" with "weight".
Quoting myself:
(10 Nov 2020, 19:31 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Sex (a set of physical characteristics) ≠ Gender (non-physical mental feature)
None of the above defines the Sexual Orientation. Scientifically proved.
Sex is a constant, permanent feature given at birth, sorry (unless you achieve the level above the 3D-space-time limitations)
The rest can change.
Woman/man terms are related to sex
Transwoman/transmen terms are related to gender
Hence the statement "transwoman is woman" makes no sense, because it literally means "gender is sex", what is wrong.
Just in case, I'm using the following wiki-definition of a transwoman:
"Trans women have a male sex assignment at birth that does not align with their gender identity"
Sex is not necessarily fixed. Sex can certainly change in some species in a lifetime like Clown Fish and Frogs. (and through medical science, humans)
What scientifically is Sex?
Sex refers to a set of biological attributes in humans and animals. It is primarily associated with physical and physiological features including chromosomes, gene expression, hormone levels and function, and reproductive/sexual anatomy. (In other words, sex is the observed characteristics of humans and animals)
When someone medically transitions, the majority of these characteristics can change. Chromosomes obviously can not change but they alone can not define the sex of a person. They are simply roadmaps the mother nature will overlook sometimes. (Like XY women who have given birth)
So a trans woman who fully transitions can change their sex. No all women have ovaries and can give birth and not all men can produce sperm and fertilize an egg CIS or TRANS.
This is very insightful, but at some point its unfortunate that trans woman cannot become pregnant because its a big part of womanhood and what really separates females from males. Anyways, I always wanted to be pregnant myself and its sad when I hear cis women complaining how they wish they were born without a uterus. Life really has a way of giving what you want to other people who don't want it 😟