A: It's blue.
B: No, you are wrong. It's blue.
A: But I said, that it's blue.
B: No, you are wrong, you said that it's blue.
😁
(22 Feb 2020, 19:48 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (22 Feb 2020, 18:43 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]I work with many trans individuals in support groups (like PFLAG in the US) and on several panels for LGBTQ healthcare. HRT helps in so many ways. I have seen lives changed for the better and trans regret (people who de-transition and/or regret transition is very low (like < 3% ). Many times that 3% is from people who have too much social or family pressure against them transitioning.
You are talking about transitioning as a whole, not HRT in particular. Some time ago I posted these links to meta-researches confirming this: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...3#pid30093
Yes, transitioning as a whole and HRT is an extremely large part of that transition. When you state:
Quote:Like Ra
Actually, I came to the conclusion, that in most of the cases HRT is useless and harmful, after checking hundreds of timeline, and studies about the differences between men and women
that is conflicting with you statement that transitioning being confirming when HRT is an essential part of transitioning. Stating that HRT is harmful is downright wrong when it is no more dangerous than cis women taking birth control. It is safe and very effective, but some trans women will neet FFS to pass, but even for this trans women, HRT is still needed along with FFS for them. FFS alone would not be as effective unless it was combined with HRT.
HRT is NOT going to change bone structure at all if they are over 25 and even then it is limited if they have gone through the incorrect puberty. However, it does change fat distribution in the face and for some individuals, that is enough to pass, for others, it is not. However, HRT is essential to transition medically and socially.
(20 Feb 2020, 20:40 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (20 Feb 2020, 00:36 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Okay so there are several things that is wrong information here now that I've read through it. Here is a proper list on what HRT (Hormone Replacement Treatment) actually does
That begs a question (I a
eady asked it a couple of pages back) - what is the point in HRT if it does not bring you any closer to being (or looking like) a woman and destroys the body (including those advantages that mens body have) apart from chemical castration to convince the doctors that you are serious about SRS?
HRT does NOT destroy the body. It changes the body but it is certainly not for everyone. It is definitely NOT for men who crossdress and those that do not want to transition. It will reduce or eliminate erections, but you can still orgasm. Orgasms do change to more of a female orgasm. Most trans women DO NOT WANT erections as they can be dysphoric for many. The point of transitioning for me to be a woman with a vagina which I do have now. I am not any different than a cis woman who had had a hysterectomy in terms of biology except that I still have a prostate that is now my G-Spot as my vaginal canal is positioned between the anal canal and the prostate. My HRT regimen is also no different than a cis woman with a hysterectomy.
(24 Feb 2020, 02:46 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]that is conflicting with you statement that transitioning being confirming when HRT is an essential part of transitioning.
I did not state it like you said. My statements were:
1. HRT is an optional part of transitioning.
2. Transitioning makes most transgenders happier, than they were before (see the links to the studies).
(24 Feb 2020, 02:46 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]Stating that HRT is harmful is downright wrong when it is no more dangerous than cis women taking birth control.
I will investigate that. @
gunz posted some links, I have also found some sources. My guess is that if a system is in balance, ANY hormone therapy will bring the system out of balance, thus making it struggle to compensate. The result can be either within the norms, that are considered healthy by the doctors, or outside of the norms, what would declare such cases as "destructive".
(24 Feb 2020, 02:46 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]HRT is safe and very effective
I always doubted the first statement (see above) and began to doubt the second a year ago. The second is quite subjective, because it's the "personal internal neural network" what decides which part of the M-F dichotomy corresponds to the given person. And the M-F dichotomy has some very grey areas, where it's not always clear what sex this person has.
So, it's very interesting to find a proper investigation on the influence of the HRT (applied at different ages) on the M-F appearance.
(24 Feb 2020, 02:46 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]some trans women will need FFS to pass, but even for this trans women, HRT is still needed along with FFS for them. FFS alone would not be as effective unless it was combined with HRT.
Yes, I agree with that.
(24 Feb 2020, 02:46 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]HRT is NOT going to change bone structure at all if they are over 25
Absolutely
(24 Feb 2020, 02:46 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]it does change fat distribution in the face and for some individuals, that is enough to pass, for others, it is not.
Fully agree
(24 Feb 2020, 02:46 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]HRT is essential to transition medically and socially.
Why is it "essential" and not "optional" in both cases?
Cornell University defines transitioning as follows:
Quote:Transitioning is the period during which a person begins to live as their “true” gender. It may include
changing one’s name, taking hormones, having surgery, and altering legal documents.
Another definition (the source is in the first link of the Wiki page):
Quote:Transitioning is the process of changing one's gender presentation and/or sex characteristics to accord with one's internal sense of gender identity – the idea of what it means to be a man or a woman,[1] or to be non-binary or genderqueer. (Non-binary people's internal sense of gender identity is neither solely female nor male.) For transgender and transsexual people, this process commonly involves reassignment therapy (which may include hormone replacement therapy and sex reassignment surgery), with their gender identity being opposite that of their birth-assigned sex and gender. Transitioning might involve medical treatment, but it does not always involve it.
So, HRT (just like SRS, etc) is optional here, not essential.
(24 Feb 2020, 03:37 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ]Cornell University defines transitioning as follows:
Quote:Transitioning is the period during which a person begins to live as their “true” gender. It may include
changing one’s name, taking hormones, having surgery, and altering legal documents.
Another definition (the source is in the first link of the Wiki page):
Quote:Transitioning is the process of changing one's gender presentation and/or sex characteristics to accord with one's internal sense of gender identity – the idea of what it means to be a man or a woman,[1] or to be non-binary or genderqueer. (Non-binary people's internal sense of gender identity is neither solely female nor male.) For transgender and transsexual people, this process commonly involves reassignment therapy (which may include hormone replacement therapy and sex reassignment surgery), with their gender identity being opposite that of their birth-assigned sex and gender. Transitioning might involve medical treatment, but it does not always involve it.
So, HRT (just like SRS, etc) is optional here, not essential.
It is true that HRT is not required to transitioned and in certain cases is not required for surgery by
WPATH standards. However, a huge majority of trans individuals find HRT beneficial if not essential. The bottom line is HRT may not be for everyone,
but is a safe and essential part of transitioning for the vast majority of transgender individuals. Most trans individuals seek out HRT because of what is does offer. Being transgender is a medical condition. The proven most effective means of treating and transgender person is through transitioning.
(24 Feb 2020, 06:16 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]The bottom line is HRT may not be for everyone, but is a safe
On one hand the article is indeed reassuring, even despite this note:
Quote:Although many of the studies identified were small and will need to be replicated with larger numbers of patients involved
On the other hand, on the same site:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...160140.htm
Quote: Emerging evidence suggests that transgender women have a higher risk of developing cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes compared with men and women in the general population.
. . .
The researchers found that transgender women only taking hormones exhibited insulin resistance and had greater fat accumulation in the liver. According to lead researcher Michael Nelson, PhD, transgender women with the highest level of testosterone had the poorest metabolic health. The researchers also observed that the amount of fat accumulation in the liver was related to degree of insulin resistance.
The data suggest that fatty liver and insulin resistance are more prevalent in transgender women taking only female hormones. Transgender women who have undergone bilateral orchiectomy appear protected against these conditions
(24 Feb 2020, 06:16 )cbshackle Wrote: [ -> ]It is true that HRT is not required to transitioned and in certain cases is not required for surgery by WPATH standards.
This is an interesting document. E.g. this note:
Quote:The Standards of Care (SOC), Version 7, represents a significant departure from previous versions. Changes in this version are based upon significant cultural shifts, advances in clinical knowledge, and appreciation of the many health care issues that can arise for transsexual, transgender, and gender-nonconforming people beyond hormone therapy and surgery (Coleman, 2009a, b, c, d).
And indeed HRT is not required even for SRS:
Quote:As the field matured, health professionals recognized that while many individuals need both hormone therapy and surgery to alleviate their gender dysphoria, others need only one of these treatment options and some need neither (Bockting & Goldberg, 2006; Bockting, 2008; Lev, 2004) Often with the help of psychotherapy, some individuals integrate their trans- or cross-gender feelings into the gender role they were assigned at birth and do not feel the need to feminize or masculinize their body. For others, changes in gender role and expression are sufficient to alleviate gender dysphoria. Some patients may need hormones, a possible change in gender role, but not surgery; others may need a change in gender role along with surgery, but not hormones. In other words, treatment for gender dysphoria has become more individualized.
(24 Feb 2020, 12:30 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (22 Feb 2020, 12:01 )gunz Wrote: [ -> ]Also again HRT in MOST countries. at least in the EU seems to be 20 actually and not 18.
It's actually lower in most EU countries:
Age at which a child can access transgender hormone therapy:
https://fra.europa.eu/en/publications-an...&year=2017
Age at which a child can request sex reassignment surgery
https://fra.europa.eu/en/publications-an...&year=2017
Consenting to medical treatment without parental consent:
https://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/201...treatments
First off. I never trust Trans related studies done by Americans in America due to the simple fact that a person who weight the same as 3normal people. (aka obese) can HRT almost on the day/week. It's a sad and a bad system they have over in the US. An obese person, and i mean a very obese person in the US can get HRT almost within a week or so simply by going to they local doctors office and putting out a decent reason why they wanna transition. Same goes for operations there where they seem to have more "leeway" with BMI limits and the more fat u have on the body the harder an operation will be aswell as there is a BIG chance the end result could be A LOT better. And lets not forget that in the US where healthcare is a joke, many ppl usually goes to private clinics and private hospitals that again can "look the other way" from time to time. I simply dont trust transresearch from the US.
PS: Get links right. It was litterly one click extra to get to the CORRECT maps 😉 Coundlt find out how to get the correct links but here is the pictures with the correct info.
Notice that HRT aswell as SRS seems to have the lower age limit of 16. Unless the General Rules for said country is different. Also mind that SRS and HRT isnt your common cold. that's why it has it's own list and it's own rules seperated from normal operations and medicaition rules and law that U linked above.
Again the bottom line is. HRT works. It gives a big/major effect to anyone starting before the age of 30/35.. depends on genes, how u allready look etc etc etc. HRT also have little risk unless u are obese (Obese when it comes to your BMI) Same goes if you are malnourished there are other risks. But obese and malnourished ppl have problems in the first place so trying to change the hormones from one gender to the other will of course make though risks higher than they allready are. So again back to the "start" where we both starting going att it xD I totally agree that astetics, or in other words how you look is maybe 75% or even more for a transperson to be passable. How do one reach this? a good combiantion with HRT and operations if needed. HRT is more than enough for many people. the younger the less operations if any is needed. How you even got the thought that an operation does infinetly more for the estetics than HRT is still way beyond my understanding when it simple does does way less than HRT does. Sure this may vary from person to person. But the majority has a massive and good effect from the HRT.