Phytoestrogens and magic herbs

[Like Ra]

From what I found on the web (real user experience)
- the result vary from nothing to significant
- if taken with blockers PM becomes quite effective at growing breast
- dosage is individual and important
- if you are on PM most likely you will gain weight
- coffee reduces the effect
- Estrogen alone does not bring testosterone level down, it might be even the other way around (can that explain the highly energetic Thai men who take PM?) Also: https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/endo/46497

Apparently, PM can be indeed quite beneficial for men if the the dosage is kept relatively low. Not like 2-4g a day... Pfff...

Edit: what they take is not known, most likely it's not P. mirifica, but P. lobata, hence the huge dosage. See the post below.

[Like Ra]

This is what I use. Plane and simple.
All others have fillers. And cost more.

I checked a bunch of Ali products, and the descriptions honestly say, that's what is claimed to be "P. mirifica" (aka Kwao Krue from Thailand) is actually P. Lobata (aka Kudzu from China). And they ARE different. Here's a quick summary:

https://orientalheritageherbalists.com/w...ria-labota

Or see the attached article above: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...2220309276

So, check the ingredients properly and ask the seller (not that it guarantees anything 😁 )

Like I said, this seems to work for me.

What are the effects you observed?

[Like Ra]

This is what I use. Plane and simple.
All others have fillers. And cost more.

Like I said, this seems to work for me.

Found it on eBay: Pueraria Mirifica  $13.29, from Thailand. Sounds legit so far.

Pueraria powder is originally white but since the roots were added to the powder this has made the powder darker (Darker or lighter tanish brown) (Pueraria roots when added are said to possibly increase the effects more than with out the roots

Errrm...  That looks suspicious. Shouldn't it be roots only? According to "Medical applications of phytoestrogens from the Thai herb Pueraria mirifica"

The bioactive compounds in P. mirifica are found in the tuberous root, in accordance with the observation that it is the roots in particular that have been used by local communities in Thailand for over a hundred years

From the feedbacks:

FAKE PUERARIA MIRIFICA! REAL PUERARIA MIRIFICA IS NOT BROWN! SELLER IS A CON!

This is the photo from another lot (same seller) Pueraria Mirifica powder

   

Definitely brown, what is, indeed, wrong.

Then:

500mg extract capsules x 100 = one bag, Total mg per bag = 15,000mg, as per the picture in the listing and title
10:1 Extract equivalent to 5g (5000mg) of standard Pueraria Mirifca
. . .
Take 1 or 2 capsules once or twice a day after a meal or with a glass of water

If under 10:1 they mean, that the extract is "10 times diluted", then:

500mg / 10 = 50mg per pill

(15,000 should be 50,000 obviously 😁)

According to "Medical applications of phytoestrogens from the Thai herb Pueraria mirifica" the dosage is:

The ordinary dosage of P. mirifica for women and men is about a peppercorn-sized piece, equivalent to about 250 mg/50 kg BW or 5 mg/kg BW, taken once a day at night.

and according to "Efficacy Comparison of Pueraria mirifica (PM) against Conjugated Equine Estrogen (CEE) with/without Medroxyprogesterone Acetate (MPA) in the Treatment of Climacteric Symptoms in Perimenopausal Women: Phase III Study" (attached)

The subjects were randomized for dosages of 50 mg of PM (women)
. . .
phase II of the PM study clinically demonstrated that PM, both daily dosage of raw material of 50 and 100 mg, alleviates the climacteric symptoms in perimenopausal women

The proposed in the eBay lot dosage looks correct.

But still you have no idea what's  in fact in those pills! 😁

@Tinker D - what is your experience/dosage/effects?

[Like Ra]

   

Let's have a look at Pueraria Mirifica White Kwao Krua Powder by SMS (Canoga Park, CA 91304)

✔ ingredients: Pueraria Mirifica (white Krua Kwao Kao), zero fillers, binders, etc
✔ it's white
✔ origin: Thailand
✖ dosage: 500mg-1000mg daily. If it's "undiluted", then it's 5-10 times more the "recommended" value
✖ how are you going to measure 50mg?

   

Similar Pueraria Mirifica White Kwao Krua Powder by Heavenly Herbs (Canoga Park, CA 91303 - quite close to SMS 😉 ) - they advise to take 1-2 tablespoons a day 😁

   

And this Pueraria mirifica White Kwao Krua is

✔ sent directly from Thailand
✔ ingredients: 100% Natural Organic Pueraria mirifica root - Nothing Else
✔ dosage: 1 capsule (250mg) per day (if it's not diluted, then this corresponds to the Thai recommended 250mg/50kG)

So, this one looks much better than the rest. This is the store: apinyngamplan_0

However the description of PM powder from the same seller is very confusing!

Department of Medical Sciences Recommend and determine how to eat Kwao Krua to be suitable and safe to eat is not more than 1-2 mg per day. Or daily not more than 1000 milligrams
For eating as an herb, use Pueraria Mirifica powder mixed with honey. Then mold into bolus the size of a pepper seed and eat 1 tablet a day.

1 milligram pueraria powder (half a teaspoon) mixed with warm water to drink.

Errrmmm... What? Also, I've never seen these warnings before:

Should not be used with Kwao Krua with people under the age of 20, pregnant or breastfeeding mothers People with cancer, thyroid tumors, enlarged cysts, uterine and ovarian diseases. Including those who drink alcohol or are at risk of developing liver cancer And people with splenomegaly

Should consume the same amount of Pueraria mirifica and not eat for more than 6 months consecutively, because it may cause thick testicle membranes or breast lump. Causing splenomegaly Also at risk of coronary heart disease or flatulence

That was quite a research! 😊

[chaste4panties]

While results likely will differ person to person, I can attest that some effects can be seen as a result of a daily dosing of the saw palmetto, licorice root, and other foods like tofu etc.  Was not aiming for it.  Former spouse had read the combinations were promoting various good health and started giving it to me all the time.  I guess she should have noted it was a women's journal she'd read the article in.   All I know is over those couple months, there was a change.

[Like Ra]

All I know is over those couple months, there was a change.

What for changes have you noticed?

[chaste4panties]

All I know is over those couple months, there was a change.

What for changes have you noticed?

Nothing hugely dramatic but did seem 5 o'clock shadow occurred later, gained a few pounds, and coincidentally my doc noted t levels were lowered during a routine checkup.   actually felt less motivated to work out too.

[Like Ra]

5 o'clock shadow occurred later

That's a positive

gained a few pounds

That's a negative

t levels were lowered

That's expected, because saw palmetto isa T-blocker.

actually felt less motivated to work out too

That might be a consequence of the low T-level.

So, indeed, something is working, and it's close to the expectation. Next question - do you like the results? 😉

[Culmor]

I'm late to the party but isn't soya full of phytoestrogens?

[Zooy]

I'm late to the party but isn't soya full of phytoestrogens?

Yes. But somehow not of the type that grows breasts. Otherwise all Japanese would need bras. They eat a lot of soya there in the form of tofu. And another of their 'delicacies' (gives me terrible headaches) named natto which are fermented soya beans.

The claim is that there is a whole hierarchy of what is more effective and what is less effective. And the claim is that Pueraria Mirifica is more or less on the top. Some others are hop and fenugreek. But if these things would work for sure (and fast?), no surgeon would earn any money with breast enlargement operations. Hence the question here is whether they can be made to work and under what conditions if so.

Just bought myself a few hundred 500mg capsules of PM. Let us see in a few months what the result is. I am sceptical but always in for an interesting experiment.