General hypnosis and NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) discussion

[Like Ra]

This morning I had some time when I could listen to a couple of files uninterrupted, refreshed and relaxed. And one of he two does work (The virtual plug). The other one is questionable (because of the poor sound quality), but I have to wait for the night to check if it works.

I'm wondering about repeatability. Is it enough to just be refreshed&relaxed, or something else should be "present"? Let's create a separate thread to investigate something... This is it: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/showth...p?tid=2158

[Like Ra]

I always loved the phrase "Plasticity of reality"...

[Like Ra]

As I wrote here: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...7#pid28377, today some files had rather a strong effect, despite the interruptions during the listening. The effect does not last long (actually, fortunately 😁), but it was very unexpected. The presence of someone else helps with "fighting" against the hypnosis, at the cost of some "slowness".

I absolutely can't explain why suddenly it began to work... Can it be related to my meditations or the Universe decided to show me what it looks like to feel like a woman? I've experienced something similar a year before I "touched" the hypno-files (still need to post about this, but I can't formulate it).

Let's see what happens tonight.

[Like Ra]

Oh, that's interesting!

When you state that you can clear your mind and concentrate on the words spoken, then that might actually have something to do with your problem. If you concentrate (consciously) you are actually holding on to your conscious mind. You should just let go of the conscious in order to have your unconscious step forward. To do that just relax and think of nothing. Do not concentrate on the words. You subconscious will pick them up anyway. Try to just go blank in your mind - like when you go to sleep. if your mind wanders a little, then fine. Let your conscious mind sift though various thoughts and don't try to stop it. It is a signal that it is about to leave. At some point it will be too bored to think any more and it will shut down. That is what we want.

[Like Ra]

Standard question: Is it possible to hypnotise a person so he/she will do or transform into something, that he/she does not want to?

According to various hypnosis articles - no, unless the hypnotee "subconsciously" wants it (yeah, what is "subconsciously"? 😁 )
According to various NLP articles - yes, and this is what NLP is for.

However, hypnosis uses NLP, and street (e.g. gypsy) hypnosis is used exactly for that.

So, what is the answer to the original question?

[Like Ra]

And again you learn something new everyday:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
https://vigilantcitizen.com/hidden-knowl...d-control/
http://conspiracy.wikia.com/wiki/Monarch_Project

[Poorwhitetrash]

Standard question: Is it possible to hypnotise a person so he/she will do or transform into something, that he/she does not want to?

According to various hypnosis articles - no, unless the hypnotee "subconsciously" wants it (yeah, what is "subconsciously"? 😁 )
According to various NLP articles - yes, and this is what NLP for.

However, hypnosis uses NLP, and street (e.g. gypsy) hypnosis is used exactly for that.

So, what is the answer to the original question?

NLP is in my mind associated with Robert Anton Wilson who as a 'Stand Up Philosopher" has the most enjoyable voice I ever listened to....

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q54xeCVFg8I
    he has a unique way of speech that my russian friend hated....my russian friend says "He Just Likes to Hear the Sound of His Own Voice!" as if that is a bad thing.... Robert Anton Wilson - Donald Trump Is F**ing Crazy

 

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MvTNj6nASM
&ytbChannel=We%20Plants%20Are%20Happy%20Plants

NLP is it not Utilized with the The system termed “dialectical?” means a synthesis or integration of opposites. The primary dialectic within DBT is between the seemingly opposite strategies of acceptance and change. For example, DBT therapists accept clients as they are while also acknowledging that they need to change in order to reach their goals.

All is as it were, A Illusionary Reality superimposed into our "Reality Tunnells" by 'Sensory trickery' as some one once said....the Whole World is a Play and we are merely actors therein.....

How about this quotation from King Solomon writing about Reality? 13 This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:
14 There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
15 Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.
16 Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard.
17 The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ecc...Chapter-9/

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

NOTE: Dosen't MATTER if I quote from Torah. ^^^ Solomon's words here are the most important lines of the Torah, or OT bible. Read Ecclesiastes and you understand
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

I also have First Edition Pocket BOOK november1941 Edition of Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam......a Rare Book.....I read the Rubaiyat when I was a child. I see a affinity in the two. Bible's Ecclesiastes and Edward Fitzgerald's translation.

[Like Ra]

Interesting thoughts on the so called "cleaning" files (from https://8ch.net/hypno/res/29285.html)

There is no such thing as a "true" wipe clean file. Although sometimes people confuse the human brain with computers, and evil trance programming with viruses, the analogy does not truly fit. Trance files do not install "bad" files into your brain's hard drive. Instead they corrupt aeady present mental associations.

Let me give an example using a pornhub file. There's a file there called Permanent Princess Femininity which attempts to make permanent mental changes to men to make them naturally more predisposed to wearing feminine clothing, thinking like a girl, acting like one, and wanting sex with guys instead of girls. Over the course of the file it attempts to make the listener notice auxiliary things about women rather than how sexy the body is, and then attempts to transfer that desire for the body instead to a desire for the clothing, makeup, etc. The file was most likely created by a psychologist or someone interested in the field since it correctly explains how mental associations work, and tries to use that fact to change the listener.

An ordinary heterosexual male associates the looks of a woman's clothing, hairstyle, shoes, makeup etc. into their overall impression of how sexy that woman looks but their focus is more on the woman as a potential sexual partner. The video attempts to make those things he notices but considers of tertiary importance to instead be the most important thing when looking at the woman.

Now, if the video successfully makes the connection in a watcher's brain (that clothes are more important than the body itself) then it becomes a difficult task to change the mental priorities back. You're not removing the programming, just adding yet more programming on top of other programming. If you do not think this is a bad idea, then you have never visited a poorly coded website to return to the computer analogy. The brain has to stop every single time and consider which programming is correct before making a decision. Meaning your brain gets slower, and slower, with each new added programming and "wipe".

Worst case scenarios for using the so called "wipe" files include turning the listener into a schizophrenic, causing accute anxiety disorders, forming a case of dissociative identity disorder (aka multiple personalities), potential amnesiac episodes, or worst of all suicidal depression.

Best case scenarios are that the new programming acts like a placebo. The watcher is still effected but thinks he has improved enough that he is happy with the results and able to fight off the urges better.

Now the SB wipe file is even worse still than the non-helpful potentially harmful generic "wipe" file you can get anywhere else. On the surface it claims to try to wipe out programming but it doesn't actually even try. Instead it tries to convince listener that the changes were not changes but the way the listener originally thought - thus "wiping the bad programming" it then tries to make you oblivious to any mental conflicts that say this is not the truth. You are told that the way you think now is normal and nothing to be afraid of or distasteful. Then it attempts to put even more subconscious associations with phallic objects, penetrations, and desires while further trying to build your identity as a beautiful person who is normal and open to all things pink and sexy with a healthy desire for swallowing and receiving sexual insertions. It also attempts to make the scent of a male partner to become addictive. Etc.

Typical SB file that does the exact opposite as the file name and first few minutes of the file's obviously audio claims to be attempting.

>clean files do exist

I never said in that last quoted post that the files didn't exist. What I stated is that they do not and can not work. Any "cleansing" is purely sugar pill / placebo in nature on the harmless versions.

In other words your best case scenario is purely getting placebo results. But far worse results can come from anyone attempting to use "powerful cleansers" like you're advertising - I haven't actually checked that particular file but from the sound of your repping it will fit in this category of unfavorable results.

The problem and reason why cleansers can't really work is that our brains are not like a windows os which can just be "rebooted" to a prior save state if the current one is corrupted. Our brains work by making "A is like B so therefore A and B are related" mental connections. The "dirty" hypnosis works by corrupting these connections and either making new additions into a mental "likeness" category or corrupting aeady present concepts so they resemble something else.

Let me put it simple for anyone who is not a psychology major… With dirty hypnosis there is no replacing file Sample.123 with a Virus.123 file. Instead file Sample.123 becomes infected but otherwise is completely usable. Cleanser hypnosis files work on the assumption that you can "fix" Sample.123 by simply installing a new Sample.123 file over the top of the infected one. However, all this does is make your brain have both a Sample.123 infected file and a Sample.123_copy "clean" file. Then your brain gets confused stressed over which version to use.

It is far healthier for your mental state to simply stop listening to "dirty" hypnosis cold turkey and simply soldier through the unwanted symptoms.

[Like Ra]

This is a good explanation (https://8ch.net/hypno/res/34840.html#q34851):

There are three elements to placebos. First the belief that something works causing an actual response in the body - this is called a somatic reaction. Second the attribution of any responses as being a result even if there is no actual correlation - this is called an attribution reaction. Third is imaging a response that is not actually happening but to the person involved it feels real - this is called a psychosomatic reaction.

Think of the three forms like this: somatic reaction has you imagining something sexy and your body reacts by getting an erection or stiff nipples. Attribution reaction you are wearing clothes that brush against the penis or nipples which actually caused the stiffening but the imagination is blamed for it. Psychosomatic reaction you remain limp but to your mind you are sporting an erection or stiff nipples.

The original poster and first responder are both referring to Somatic reactions in regards to placebos. Meaning that an actual cause is being driven by the imaginations of the mind. These effects may include temperature awareness changes, arousal, stress, etc.

However, what is important to note in regards to Hypnosis is that this is the "good" placebo. Like how there are "good" and "bad" bacteria, or "good" and "bad" fats or sugars or cholesterol.

In the other thread when I referred to the binaural beats fad as being merely placebo I was NOT referring to the "good" or somatic reactions.

binaural beats does not use the "good" placebo effects but rather makes use of the two "bad" ones.

Attribution reactions are where something is aeady present but the cause is miss interpreted. For example, no matter how much a girl, or transbirthed male, desires she will not magically grow larger breasts just by a reaction of wishing for them to grow bigger. However, with the correct diet and water intake you may see an improvement in that area even as a transbirth male. More importantly for breast sensitivity however is the stimulation of the cell tissue which occurs from constant handling - such as what happens when you are testing for if a beats file is working.

Then there is the psychosomatic reaction baddest of placebo reactions. This is the one that can get you most in trouble psychologically. In normal hypnosis files this would be where the hypnotist tries to convince someone to imagine that they are something they are not and ignore anything that would contradict that.

Some would argue that it is not dangerous to imagine you have a body of a beautiful model when you really do not; however every study agree that this unrealistic ideal body image usually leads to either depression, anxiety, identity disorders, anger, self-disgust, etc.

Sometimes these people suffer because no matter how well their own brain has self-deluded the image, they can still see how people react to them and it disrupts the fantasy and leaves them in a very low mental state. Other times the suffering comes as a result of trying to force their body into the ideal state and as a result develop eating or purging disorders.

Anyway, the point to this entire post is to state that placebo is a real thing and that the term is meant for more than just a "mental reaction" but rather what "type" of mental reaction.

Hypnosis can cause very real changes to the thinking processes and that is usually not a matter of "pure placebo". This is why I get indignant any time someone says hypnosis is only showing an effect that you want since this is not the case at all with certain forms of "retraining" hypnosis.

But binaural beats which claim to be able to turn someone from 6 ft tall to 5 ft tall or vice versa, or change their bone or cartilage structure, or change the color of their hair / eyes / skin pigment is "pure placebo" in that it can't make a single actual change of that nature.

I hope people will be able to better understand the differences between actual mental changes caused by hypnosis, and the belief that certain physical changes can be induced.

People really need a better understanding of what actually is meant by the word "placebo" and how it can vary situationally in science just like how the word "theory" can vary.

[Like Ra]

Like my daughter says:"Correlation does not imply causation" 😁