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Layered(?), NLP like files, what is how perceived?
#1
This is about hypnotists who only use one voice. (Samantha Bandler like stuff is a whole other thing I suppose)

I am talking about hypnotists like N!ck1 F4t*le or El3|\|a Mc|v0,-.
There is the surface layer where you hear every word, especially when you are new to the tist and didn't learn any triggers, yet. Intermediate trance where the tist usually tells you in a more or less firm voice that you are in trance or that you should relax deeper to hear the real deal damnit. ūüėČ


Similar things apply to tists that do videos and for example snaps so that you are consciously blind to parts of the video. I had that happen with videos of P()rt14.
What does the brain actually perceive? Obviously all the layers but how do they interact or prioritise? And more importantly, that way the tist can hide triggers and phrases so one cant even consciously take notice. I for one after some familiarization with a good tist go immediately into deep trance or fully blank out, also with new files so I cant even analyse the normal phrasing. Especially dangerous with devious files or suggestions that are not really wanted.¬†ūüėíIs there a way to circumvent that to prevent oneself to go into deep trance immediately or quickly?

How does this affect deep clean files, especially with suggestions that are linked powerfully through multiple triggers or triggers that reinforce each other like the "good old" curses with the pink elephant method? (Really evil stuff like the Bambi "protection" mp3 not to even mention).
One time I found that I heard the tist's voice whose suggestions I want to get rid off instead of for example Nimja, making the whole effort null and void. I found the only thing that works is perceiving or giving the cleaner tist as having more authority than the other tist. Other methods?
As for deactivating triggers and their effects, I read a sentence that basically tells your mind that it is in control and makes the hypnosis not work even if you are deep under but it doesn't seem to always work, especially with strong files.

What I also find interesting is how all the good tists seem to know or how the brain knows what to ignore consciously, especially with sentences that on the surface level actually make enough sense but instead it connects the underlaying layers. That way when you listen to another tist who many use whole different triggers it often still works. This comes especially into play with snaps. I guess once you have a snap implanted as trance inducing it generalises. Could that be dangerous in real life when another person does a snap or only when they know how to proceed further?
Is there a website where one can see scripts of the files of hypnotists?

As for other generalisations, I often get incredibly horny and even orgasmic with new files even when there isn't such an explicit suggestion. Maybe that is my own expectations or some other trigger?

one last question, do hypnotist names automatically get censored via script or do I have to do it manually?
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#2
(10 Nov 2019, 23:18 )peterpumm Wrote: do hypnotist names automatically get censored via script or do I have to do it manually?
This one can be easily answered: no, there is no obfuscation script, and no, you do not have to be overly cautious in "l33tspeaking" the names either, especially in the discussion threads, not mentioning sharing. A couple of letters should be enough ūüėČ

And welcome to the forum!
Reply
#3
What does the brain actually perceive? 
Perception of the "unconscious" mind would make an interesting topic for discussion, unfortunately I don't have any thing to share.

Obviously all the layers but how do they interact or prioritise?
The main layer you are conscious of, the background layers I've heard are almost out of audio range (not truly subliminal)
While you consciously listen to the main track your "critical factor" is deciding what to make of the information, to accept, or to reject it.
Your subconscious mind doesn't scrutinize the background track like your waking consciousness might, it seems the sub-conscious (mainly) just listens.

 And more importantly, that way the tist can hide triggers and phrases so one cant even consciously take notice.
A number techniques at play, and I haven't seen a lot written about this. 

Don't think of a purple bird.
I don't think of a purple bird.
You shouldn't think of a purple bird.
Could you think of a purple bird,
Would you think of a purple bird.
Please, could you not think of a purple bird?

 I for one after some familiarization with a good tist go immediately into deep trance or fully blank out, also with new files so I cant even analyse the normal phrasing. Especially dangerous with devious files or suggestions that are not really wanted.  
Confused Is there a way to circumvent that to prevent oneself to go into deep trance immediately or quickly?
I'm unsure if you're naturally somnambulistic, but you should be able to skip past the induction, and create a strong distraction, (possibly a thumb-tack pressed against your skin would cause enough discomfort) hopefully creating a situation where you don't respond to any triggers you hear throughout the file, of course skip around and listen for the suggestions while in a waking state.
but..
If rapport is well established (you really enjoy listening to their voice and have done so for a while) simply listening to the hypnotist's voice (regardless of phrasing) could be enough to elicit a hypnotic state. 

How does this affect deep clean files, especially with suggestions that are linked powerfully through multiple triggers or triggers that reinforce each other like the "good old" curses with the pink elephant method? (Really evil stuff like the Bambi "protection" mp3 not to even mention).
I'm not a therapist, I would look at this situation as (possibly) needing therapeutic intervention with a skilled hypnotherapist; you're looking to change more than one association and/or conditioned response, seemingly simultaneously.
Possibility of uncovering unexpected triggers, trauma, or other issues during the process of cognitive restructuring would be my concern. 

One time I found that I heard the tist's voice whose suggestions I want to get rid off instead of for example Nimja, making the whole effort null and void. I found the only thing that works is perceiving or giving the cleaner tist as having more authority than the other tist. Other methods? Ultimately is your mind, you have authority over your domain.
As for deactivating triggers and their effects, I read a sentence that basically tells your mind that it is in control and makes the hypnosis not work even if you are deep under but it doesn't seem to always work, especially with strong files.
If you've been given a suggestion that works, but you don't want to respond to it anymore, I believe you can find that you are able to ignore the suggestion, and what was triggering you will stop working, that is after you've identified the trigger.

This situation can
 be approached by your waking mind, even if you aren't aware of what exactly is triggering you.
You can modify the perception of your experience and affect behavioral change through awareness/mindfulness.

You might find that you're able to change your
sub-conscious reaction(s) by consciously conditioning yourself (awareness+repetition) to respond differently to the stimuli or to not respond at all to the stimuli.
Consciously re-direct yourself to think/feel/do anything else as soon as you become aware that you're triggered and responding to hypnotic suggestion; I believe if do this enough you can change your mind at the "sub-conscious" level. 

I believe Hypnotherapy can be used to help in these situations, so that you will longer respond to those negative/unwanted suggestions, or so you can change whatever reaction or behavoir may bothering you.

What I also find interesting is how all the good tists seem to know or how the brain knows what to ignore consciously,
The good ones have serious insight, likely from years of experience. 

especially with sentences that on the surface level actually make enough sense but instead it connects the underlaying layers.
Interestingly, the main track doesn't have to intersect with the background track, they may be completely separate and unrelated to each other. 
I like creative wording, emphasis and pauses that (hopefully) help create something different(in the mind)
from what was on paper.
 
I've read somewhere that your "sub-conscious mind" can listen and retain information, even while the waking mind is focused on other something else.
I believe that's why some artists like to use "whisper tracks" in the background, they know you can't so easily analyze something once it's been
obfuscated.

The background audio tracks being so low in volume, barely perceptible, this a kind of subliminal effect, one where the conscious mind cannot really hear or decipher what is being said, especially if the words are scrambled, but the sub-conscious is listening.
While you listen to the main audio track your sub-conscious is interpreting (in a different way than your waking consciousness would) and possibly storing this information, without you being aware that it's even happening.

I've read that the sub-conscious doesn't handle negatives the same way as our conscious mind does.
Let's say I made a looping track that contained these sentences:
"You don't want to kiss
 breasts"
  "You don't want to feel breasts"
     "You don't want to think about breasts"
       "I don't not want to smoke"

If you are able to hear the words looped (in the background of a regular audio track),
 and agree with the affirmations, or you don't disagree with what was said...
You might chose to listen, unaware that it is entirely for possible your sub-conscious to interprets these sentences however it wants, possibly even like this:
"You don't want to kiss
 breasts"

  "You don't want to feel breasts"
     "You don't want to think about breasts"
        "You don't not want to smoke"

That way when you listen to another tist who many use whole different triggers it often still works.

I believe being conditioned to respond to commonly used words, creates an association with those commonly used words. Words like Sleep, Relax, Deeper, Etc.. I'm thinking you're, naturally, highly suggestible?

This comes especially into play with snaps. I guess once you have a snap implanted as trance inducing it generalizes. Could that be dangerous in real life when another person does a snap or only when they know how to proceed further?

I would like to think this depends on two factors, wording of the post-hypnotic suggestion (if that's all the snap response is), and the subjects interpretation of the phrasing used.

"Whenever you hear me  snap my fingers, you will feel a wave of deep relaxation that is comforting and calming to you."
[Doesn't have any "situational safety" wording, and exclusive to one voice]

"At any place and regardless of who is around, if you hear me  snap my fingers, you will feel a wave of deep relaxation that is comforting and calming to you."
 [Exclusive, but risky depending on the suggestion]


Whenever you are at an appropriate and private place, if you hear me  snap my fingers, you will feel a wave of deep relaxation that is comforting and calming to you."
 [Safe, and exclusive to one person]


"Wh
enever you and I are alone together  and you hear me  snap my fingers, you will feel a wave of deep relaxation that is comforting and calming to you."
  [Safe, and exclusive to one person]

"At any time and place, and regardless of who is around, if you hear anyone  snap their fingers, you will feel a wave of deep relaxation that is comforting and calming to you." 
  [Wide open, very risky for certain suggestions.]

“From now on, whenever I, or anyone else you've agreed to do hypnosis with, snaps their  fingers towards you, instantly feel a wave of deep relaxation that is comforting and calming to you." 
[This one is nice because it's not extremely open nor is it exclusive to one voice/person.]


Response to conditioning can be another
 piece of the puzzle, 
Let's say for example in your mind there is an association formed between finger snaps, and relaxation (or even trance)..

If this association was formed in a very general and vague
way, (can't imagine how) it really wouldn't matter who was snapping their fingers, you could exhibit a response.
U
nless of course it was someone you have an aversion to or feel disgust towards that was doing the snapping, perhaps you wouldn't respond to them; take this with a grain of salt, as I don't have any experience with this type of situation.

  
You might need a ,helping nudge, in the right direction, so you can establish the fact, that your mind knows exactly when it is or isn't in a safe place for you to drop into trance.

Let's say a powerful post-hypnotic suggestion was given, suggesting that you cross a specific road, at a specific time, without looking;
also suggested was that you will experience a negative-hallucination making any vehicles within eyesight invisible to your conscious/waking mind.

Even then, I don't think someone is going to blindly walk out into traffic and not "snap out of it" if a large truck is barreling down the road towards them.

I think the mind has some
instinctual fail-safe mechanism; if this "fail-safe" didn't exist I think
the eMe-aKa Ultra experiments would have demonstrated that we are extremely vulnerable and pliable; but we aren't,
and not all of us are equally suggestible or susceptible. 
I would rather not speculate or theorize about "mind control" experiments; you are the master of your inner domain.

I believe that if someone wants to ignore certain programming, ideas, or suggestions, and/or wants to make some change, with enough awareness and a new perspective, anything is possible.
You can reject any suggestions that doesn't serve you, and create any change that you may need in order to live a better life. 

Is there a website where one can see scripts of the files of hypnotists?

You can find a few transcripts here on the forum, you'll have to search around though.
Pastebin has a few if you search by the artist's name, I think more are out there but likely buried due to 1337 speak titles.  

As for other generalisations, I often get incredibly horny and even orgasmic with new files even when there isn't such an explicit suggestion. Maybe that is my own expectations or some other trigger?
I would like to suggest that perhaps you have an "Erotic Hypnosis Kink" (like many of us on this sub-forum).
I know I do, and I get excited simply putting the headphones on.
I'd say that your anticipation may be¬†causing¬†excitement and/or¬†arousal. ūüėČ

I don't feel like I added much (if any)  new information here, but I hope this post helps someone somehow.
Have a great day!
"One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
-Admiral Hopper
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#4
Wow, thanks a lot for the extensive answer. Biggrin
You seemed a bit concerned but don't worry. My mind is all gucci and I cleared it of so much especially in the last few weeks somehow unconsciously and definitely through the help of the Lord (Thanks, God). Surprises me every day anew. So it's all good on that front.

Quote:The main layer you are conscious of, the background layers I've heard are almost out of audio range (not truly subliminal)
While you consciously listen to the main track your "critical factor" is deciding what to make of the information, to accept, or to reject it.
Is a background layer necessary for recombination of sentence pieces? I meant in the way that for instance one sentence ends. Then a few other sentences follow, but in deeper trance you don't hear those but they are blinded out and instead you hear the beginning of the following sentence in the script. Or even more advanced, when the tist voices words weirdly or invents a new word from an existing word as if it's written by a dyslexic and then in deeper trance the mind hears this word differently or even building another word in combination with another word.
Perfect examples are Elena McIvor and Nikki. I know Nikki also uses extra NLP background layers like you mean.
Samantha Bandler is obviously NLP king. What I find interesting is how one can concentrate on his whisper tracks, perceiving them louder while basically shutting out the other tracks out of the conscious to really hear what is going on in the sentence which is impossible when one hears them all at the same time.

As for the instatrance I found that when I'm tired of hearing hypnotic files after a binge or when I am completely refreshed after a session I usually am in very low trance that I can hear the regular sentences often. But for some that doesn't work for me. Once I got conditioned by Nikki  for instance, I went into trance after any sentence of her and I had to quit her. Biggrin
Quote:I'm unsure if you're naturally somnambulistic,
Probably, I am so perceptive it hurts sometimes. And I can sense energy or atmosphere if you will extremely well. On some LSD trips I actually experienced real hallucinations instead of the usual pseudo-hallucinations which is extremely rare, actually. So that would hint to that direction. Plus year long experiences with hypnosis. ūüėȬ† I did manage to go into deeper trance but not as crass as today (regularly blanking out) where I can basically condition myself extremely with just one listen of a file.
Quote:I believe you can find that you are able to ignore the suggestion, and what was triggering you will stop working, that is after you've identified the trigger.
And here we come to the crux of the issue. IF I can identify all the triggers from a file or triggers that reinforce each other. Files can be especially dangerous with mantras and self-reinforcing. That is why I immediately use a clean file if a file seemed unkosher. Some triggers cannot be consciously accessed, anymore, but unconsciously of course they can. And yes, it is obviously possible to say stop to suggestion and that works for most cases and to snap out of trance. But for hardcore conditioning there may still be lingering issues. Good analogy would be childhood trauma for example that made you behave unadaptively and rigid to the trigger from the trauma situation. Deep hypnosis can basically be as powerful as trauma/deep emotional impact.


As for the ignoring of what is happening right in front of you after you are in trance. Sex (not the act), smell, the hypnotist activating the senses or just a simple fingertic on the forehead to initially confuse the mind can do that very quickly.¬† Imagine you meet a really hardcore witch in real life that is capable of that just by showing cleavage. ūüėČ
A great example of that is Portia for example, she does sexy videos. She also uses snapping or subtle "snaps" like rocking a chair or otherwise make small soundbits to irritate the mind/take it into trance. Counting, breathing, the works. Consciously when I'm in trance I absolutely cannot perceive parts of the video, and those parts are those where she is nude. And she does not use any suggestions that would say that I should not see the nude parts of the video. That is scary, no open suggestion at all and I think no NLP, either.
She does not use background whispers or whatever. Just by using counting, snaps and breathing she makes part of my world perception disappear and exactly the ones she wants. That is what really scares me. Imagine you are in a friendly chat or you're at a party or some other social event where you're relaxed and therefore can be easily led into a trance or basically are in one already. Even more if sex comes into play, cleavage can easily suffice or just a sweet nothing whispered in the ear, add some nice perfume and BAM. You get suggestions hammered into your mind which you don't even notice. AT ALL.
A witch or just a regular psychopath if you will knows how to do those things. Friend of mine told me how his father knew how to do such things. He knew exactly what to do to irritate you and then infiltrate the mind with whatever he wants. Also had a similar situation once with a self proclaimed MD and "therapist" (he was a full blown sociopath and my guess is also a total conman because any time I asked him field-related questions he skillfully diverted) that led a seminar and knew how to create atmosphere and make everyone eat out of his hand. How can one protect against such things? This is even more dangerous if one can't escape the situation.
Quote:“From now on, whenever I, or anyone else you've agreed to do hypnosis with, snaps their  fingers towards you, instantly feel a wave of deep relaxation that is comforting and calming to you." 
[This one is nice because it's not extremely open nor is it exclusive to one voice/person.]
This is where such suggestions also come into place. Such a suggestion is actually extremely dangerous as it can be exploited (even though may be unlikely). Then again, low  level "hypnosis", or influencing via authority and other normal human influencing does happen and is more effective when one is in trance or shock. Which leads me to a very important topic for me.
Is there a way to create a "mind shield"?

And yes, it is usually said that the "unconscious" (which is just a helpful concept btw, the consciousness/unconsciousness duality does not physically exist, but no need to sperg about neuroscience here. ūüėČ ) ignores negatives. This is true but negative suggestions can definitely work. They are just not as "natural" I guess.


MKUltra/Project Monarch is extremely crazy stuff btw. Even back in the 50s that neurosurgeon at the Tavistock Institute in Canada (which still belongs to the CIA I think) did the craziest experiments. Even back then he could stimulate the brain regions via electrodes to actually mindcontrol cattle. There is even a video of it where he instacalms down a raging bull. And you don't want to know what he did to the child "patients" in his clinic. ūüėē
Just imagine what the intelligence services are capable of today, and how subtle they could work, maybe not even needing personal contact. Of course personal contact/influencing via an agent is way more effective.


Btw, anyone got an idea how to change deep childhood conditioning, that potentially even created unreachable "inner mantras" from trauma? I got some situations that I basically act like a robot. I know the deep reason but it is so ingrained and so powerful I don't know if I can change it myself. My mind got basically "perverted" with shame, guilt etc, "reverse associations" of pleasure, stuff like that. Simple exposure or CBT would just be a bandaid basically or would need a ton of repetition and help.
Hopefully I'll be able to afford a hypnotherapist in the not so far future.
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#5
(25 Nov 2019, 21:56 )peterpumm Wrote: How can one protect against such things?
Study NLP ūüėä NLP is both much bigger, than people usually think about it, yet quite simple, because in it's essence it's a bunch of techniques, taken from different official and non-official sciences. I tried to watch at least 40min of NLP trainings a day, but due to a very high load stopped two months ago. I hope to start again close to the Xmas time. I must say that everybody must follow at least the basic course. Just to get the idea that ... people, actually, can't really understand each other ūüėĀ
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