Perceived age and art

[Lancer]

Any art made to look like the subject is under age and engaged in anything erotic could possibly be perceived by authorities as paedo tendencies, and get you in trouble.

Personally I have ZERO interest in that type. Be they anime or AI or whatever. And I personally question the morality of the person creating it and as well those that enjoy it.

Cosplay/roleplay is one thing, this is another.

Replying to this one but this addresses later posts as well. 

Vanessa considering your age is in all likelihood 2 to 3 times mine you should know better than to rely on government or authority for objective morality, being gay or trans or a crossdresser was heavily frowned upon if not outright illegal up until fairly recently and that isn't even scratching equal rights. CSAM and protect the children has also been used as a brutal weapon in the expansion of surveillance and state regardless of actual merit just because it is such a strong point that to even suggest that it isn't justifiable gets politicians crucified by their opponents. 

Your arguments are also wafer thin, protecting the weak, vulnerable and immature is noble and a part of what separates civilized humanity from wild beasts and degenerate barbarity, yet that was not your argument. You argument is a mess of personal attacks that merely claim poor morality or overblowing Ras stubbornness into dictatorship. Poor morality is the exact same argument that religious people apply against us, while I agree there is a limit it would be hypocrisy for us to blindly accuse others of moral issues without some ground to stand on. I personally won't cast a stone as long as it stays fictional since if I want to preserve the freedom I have to exist outside of what is normal, coexisting with furries, shit/food fetishists and pedophiles who don't act it out even if I find them disgusting is that price. 

I have warned Ra though, this community is not so buried and obscure like the dark web or invite only chat groups to be immune to the outside world. If a reasonably important outside group believed that our community had become a hub for child porn Ra would be in very hot water and every one of us will have the attention of watching eyes and shifting ears.

[Lycalopex]

Frankly, fiction is fiction. I may not personally approve of or have any interest in it, but as long as real people/animals/whatever aren't harmed, I don't really care and it's not my right to care.

[vanessa_fetish]

you really can't see it, can you?

Do I see what?

Anytime someone posts anything you don't agree with

Examples?

you answer the same way

What way? How would you like me to answer? Please give an example.

You run this place like a dictator.

Sounds like an accusation. Care to explain?

I've had messages from people saying the same thing (or worse btw).

Unprovable without checking your mailbox, isn't it?

Your opinion

What opinion? Do you actually know my opinion? Do you care about my opinion? Have you ever asked me about my opinion on anything?

Your opinion and those that agree with it are the only ones that matter.

Please explain the "matterness". Do I ban the rest? Do I say, that someone is wrong? Do I blame anybody for anything? Sounds like yet another accusation with no facts behind.

As a former site owner who had forums, this is not the way.

What way do you expect?

They're afraid to say anything you won't agree with.

What do I do with people who do not agree with me? E.g. @princesitanatty (where are you, BTW?) never agrees with me, yet we always have fantastic and very useful dialogues. Culmor usually does not agree with me, and I greatly value his opinion. So, another unprovable statement?

On the other hand, did you notice that you do not follow the topic, but derail the thread with statements you do not even care to prove or even explain? And when I ask for explanation, you don't care to reply? Is this the proper way of leading the forum you expect?

Typical dictator-ish response - unprovable without checking my inbox. I'm not going to throw people under the bus who've contacted me in confidence.

Not following - just because I don't click follow doesn't mean I don't read it and follow the thread. 

I am not derailing the thread. I posted my thoughts, you attacked them in a childish manner without just simply asking questions maturely. 

I'm not going to go into much of an answer to anything you post like that simply because I know the manner in which you are going to respond.

It's all evident throughout the forums.

And if you've not noticed, Ra, we do have good discussions on things. Sadly only on things we agree about. Because too often when I respond to anything else, you come across too strong. Just a friendly word of advice - try not to do so.

Anyhow that is all I will say in here about this publicly. Anything else, private. As it should be.

[vanessa_fetish]

Any art made to look like the subject is under age and engaged in anything erotic could possibly be perceived by authorities as paedo tendencies, and get you in trouble.

Personally I have ZERO interest in that type. Be they anime or AI or whatever. And I personally question the morality of the person creating it and as well those that enjoy it.

Cosplay/roleplay is one thing, this is another.

Replying to this one but this addresses later posts as well. 

Vanessa considering your age is in all likelihood 2 to 3 times mine you should know better than to rely on government or authority for objective morality, being gay or trans or a crossdresser was heavily frowned upon if not outright illegal up until fairly recently and that isn't even scratching equal rights. CSAM and protect the children has also been used as a brutal weapon in the expansion of surveillance and state regardless of actual merit just because it is such a strong point that to even suggest that it isn't justifiable gets politicians crucified by their opponents. 

Your arguments are also wafer thin, protecting the weak, vulnerable and immature is noble and a part of what separates civilized humanity from wild beasts and degenerate barbarity, yet that was not your argument. You argument is a mess of personal attacks that merely claim poor morality or overblowing Ras stubbornness into dictatorship. Poor morality is the exact same argument that religious people apply against us, while I agree there is a limit it would be hypocrisy for us to blindly accuse others of moral issues without some ground to stand on. I personally won't cast a stone as long as it stays fictional since if I want to preserve the freedom I have to exist outside of what is normal, coexisting with furries, shit/food fetishists and pedophiles who don't act it out even if I find them disgusting is that price. 

I have warned Ra though, this community is not so buried and obscure like the dark web or invite only chat groups to be immune to the outside world. If a reasonably important outside group believed that our community had become a hub for child porn Ra would be in very hot water and every one of us will have the attention of watching eyes and shifting ears.

I do not rely on govt etc, I simply point out that they can (and have) taken action over such material etc. That they may look at it differently than what it is intended. Please don't assume that because I post something about it, that I condone or support govt/authority etc.

No, not wafer thin. And they were not meant as attacks, but pointing out stuff. Maybe overblowing, but sorry, his stubborness etc hurts the discourse of the forums. 

As for my comment about questioning morality, it was not meant the way that you think. It just means that I personally wonder about it, but I would not accuse etc. Just like I question ADBL, it's not for me, and I personally will never do it, and it makes me wonder what happened to those that are into it etc.

Oh, someone's definitely reported. No names, no pack drill.

EDITED TO ADD: Lancer shows how to answer and discuss. Questions, makes points, etc civilly.

[Like Ra]

Let's star with the off-topic first (I might move it to a separate thread).

Typical dictator-ish response - unprovable without checking my inbox. I'm not going to throw people under the bus who've contacted me in confidence.

Wrong logic. The only way to prove that you received such mails is to show them in your mailbox. It has nothing to do with dictatorship.

I am not derailing the thread. I posted my thought 

A former site owner, who had forums, should be able to distinguish on-topic posts from off-topic ones, and understand what flame is.

I posted my thoughts, you attacked them in a childish manner

Ungrounded manipulative statements. Ignored.

I will post a thread dedicated to propaganda and manipulations.

without just simply asking questions maturely. 

You never answer my questions. Please tell me, what is not mature with this question:

Cosplay/roleplay is one thing, this is another.

I did not reply to this phrase, because I did not fully understand what you meant by that. Could you, please, elaborate?

And if you've not noticed, Ra, we do have good discussions on things. Sadly only on things we agree about.

Wrong again. I mentioned it many times, but you prefer to ignore it:

E.g. @princesitanatty (where are you, BTW?) never agrees with me, yet we always have fantastic and very useful dialogues. Culmor usually does not agree with me, and I greatly value his opinion. So, another unprovable statement?

Because too often when I respond to anything else, you come across too strong.

What do you mean under "too strong"? Are my reasoning and logic "too strong"? I do my best, but from time to time @princesitanatty (where are you, BTW?) manages to find flaws in them.

his stubborness etc hurts the discourse of the forums. 

Argumentum ad hominem. Ignored.

I do not rely on govt etc, I simply point out that they can (and have) taken action over such material etc

Yes

That they may look at it differently than what it is intended.

And yes. Again:

"Anything you do could possibly be perceived by authorities as something illegal, and get you in trouble." Because this is what the authorities are paid for.

Oh, someone's definitely reported. No names, no pack drill.

I don't understand this phrase. Please clarify?

[Like Ra]

Back to the topic.

art made to look like the subject is under age and engaged in anything erotic ...
Personally I have ZERO interest in that type. Be they anime or AI or whatever. And I personally question the morality of the person creating it and as well those that enjoy it.

As for my comment about questioning morality, it was not meant the way that you think. It just means that I personally wonder about it, but I would not accuse etc.

Could you please clarify what you meant by it? Is it == "morality", or it == "art made to look like the subject is under age and engaged in anything erotic"?

Do I understand correctly, that you would not accuse such person anyway?

[Like Ra]

Next. How old is she?

All previous appear to be in range of 20 to 25 or so with some flex due to slightly above average fat content in the face however by my experience they do not appear under 20. 

This post is more dubious, the first and last girl look underage and although my intuition isn't great I would assume on the lower range. Probably around 15 to 16 if I had to guess

Second girl looks like early thirties but that makeup and hairstyle can fool eyesight, her body looks on the younger side but in fairness maintaining good shape is not impossible. The makeup looks old though.

This is interesting... If I pretend, that I do not "know" their age, I would say, that:

- 1st girl: 13-17yo
- 2nd girl: 15-21yo
- 3d girl: 18-25 yo

The rather wide range is also because of the makeup.

[Like Ra]

Frankly, fiction is fiction. I may not personally approve of or have any interest in it, but as long as real people/animals/whatever aren't harmed, I don't really care, and it's not my right to care.

Finally! I was afraid that nobody would say that!

You can tear or burn down a piece of paper, but you can't hurt the image or the text, regardless what was drawn or written there.
You can smash and destroy a doll, but you can't hurt it, regardless of the sex, race, or age of the being represented by it.
You can delete a computer file, but you can't hurt the content, regardless of the subject.
You can kill a virtual person in a computer game, but you can't hurt it, regardless of the used weapon.

You can't harm a creature, which does not exist, regardless of what it looks like. It does not matter if you play a first-person shooter computer game or dress a virtual boy in latex stockings and high heels.

As long as no real creature gets hurt, God bless dolls of all ages, manga/anime/doujins of all genres, and computer games of all actions. And according to the researches (https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...0#pid40130), they DO save lives.

[Lancer]

Frankly, fiction is fiction. I may not personally approve of or have any interest in it, but as long as real people/animals/whatever aren't harmed, I don't really care, and it's not my right to care.

Finally! I was afraid that nobody would say that!

You can tear or burn down a piece of paper, but you can't hurt the image or the text, regardless what was drawn or written there.
You can smash and destroy a doll, but you can't hurt it, regardless of the sex, race, or age of the being represented by it.
You can delete a computer file, but you can't hurt the content, regardless of the subject.
You can kill a virtual person in a computer game, but you can't hurt it, regardless of the used weapon.

You can't harm a creature, which does not exist, regardless of what it looks like. It does not matter if you play a first-person shooter computer game or dress a virtual boy in latex stockings and high heels.

As long as no real creature gets hurt, God bless dolls of all ages, manga/anime/doujins of all genes, and computer games of all actions. And according to the researches (https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...0#pid40130), they DO save lives.

The fiction is not the questionable part of it, it's how we interact with them or feel about them that makes the fiction questionable. Few people would mind if you have a doll or a model of a historical figure or celebrity but people question it if you have a doll of someone closer to you as it is a big red flag for a creepy or obsessive attachment if not presented and treated correctly. Similarly people will start raising eyebrows if you burn or hang or otherwise abuse the dolls, the fact that you abused them is of little consequence, they aren't real people after all, the inference of your internal state or opinion of the doll is what raises eyebrows. People might wonder if you might burn the real person if given the chance or why you might hate them so much. It doesn't take a social genius to put 2 and 2 together and assume that if you play obvious pedo games or enjoy the content that you might be a pedophile irl. For better or worse people look ahead, if they think that you are a ticking time bomb they will certainly be negative to your presence if not take outright action. 

The reason for tolerance is not that the content is not questionable or the implications not disgusting, the reason for tolerance is the unspoken agreement that they keep it virtual and we lower our pitchforks, if they were mere automata or bombs we would dismantle or fix them to avoid the future risk but they are humans and we have next to no resources to actually help them get better, the only moral action to do is thus this uncomfortable cold war.

As long as no real person gets hurt I am happy for them to sate themselves on (non ai) art, imagination and text, the only limit previously being that no real person was involved. The reason AI art oversteps this boundary is similar to why I would be more alarmed at a grenade with the pin pulled than I would be with one with the pin still in. It is one thing to look at some make believe with art or text and it is a whole different thing to jerk it to real looking children. A very thin and yet important safeguard of fiction and reality is breached by AI, one that I am unwilling to haggle or yield on.

[Like Ra]

People might wonder if you might burn the real person if given the chance or why you might hate them so much. It doesn't take a social genius to put 2 and 2 together and assume that if you play obvious pedo games or enjoy the content that you might be a pedophile irl.

And if you play computer games (e.g. first person shooters), you are most likely a potential killer? Should you be treated somehow? Just in case?

And if you practice martial arts and train with a mannequin, you are most likely aggressive and dangerous, and constantly looking for someone to beat up?

The list can go on...

If you read Marquis de Sad, you have a tendency of sewing mouths shut.
If you watch films over the 2nd World War, you are a nazi.
Did you notice, that martial art mannequins are white men? Sounds racist!