Autogynephilia

[princesitanatty]

I think the correct analogy is that using "AGP" is like using "Flat Earth", not like using "Earth" alone. I disagree with the theory's main claims

ADP is not a theory, it's a definition of an existing effect, or a symptom, or a fact.
Blanchard used symptoms or facts to create a theory, explaining another effect.
So, my analogy of Flat Earth is correct. ADP (or Earth) is a building block, with which anybody can create any theory.

AGP is the name of a theory, and the name of a paraphilic category. Both the theory and the paraphilic category are discussed by proponents of rival theories. Critics of AGP argue that the theory has problems of evidence and that the experience should not be categorized as a paraphilia, so they use other words (like erotic crossdreaming, cross-gender arousal, or feminine/masculine embodiment fantasies) that don't have the implication that the experience is a paraphilia. So there's no agreement between researchers about using AGP as the name of a fact, or symptom, or effect. I agree more with the critics than with Blanchard, and I prefer their words and theories. If you are interested in the debates about AGP and rival theories, you can find some references here: https://transgenderreport.com/all-you-ne...resources/

[Like Ra]

AGP is the name of a paraphilic category.

Yes

AGP is the name of a theory,

Apparently, only on the "fan sites", or, rather, "no-fan sites". In any other more or less scientific sources, the theory is called "Blanchard's theory" ("Blanchard's transsexualism typology", to be more precise), not "AGP theory". So, I think, the "general trans-society" still confuses things, because of the wrong "shortcut" name "AGP theory of transsexualism" used by the "popularizers". It's like all photocopiers are "xeroxes", in NL all GPS navigators are "tomtoms", and we are "googling" using Bing or Duck-Duck-Go.

In short: the term "AGP theory" is wrong, the term "Blanchard's typology" is right.

As an example: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3180619/

New MRI Studies Support the Blanchard Typology of Male-to-Female Transsexualism

" ... The heterosexual transsexuals are still distinct from typical males in other ways, however, such as by manifesting “autogynephilia”—the erotic interest in or sexual arousal in response to being or seeming female. ..."

[princesitanatty]

AGP is the name of a paraphilic category.

Yes

AGP is the name of a theory,

Apparently, only on the "fan sites", or, rather "no-fan sites". In any other more or less scientific sources, the theory is called "Blanchard's theory" ("Blanchard's transsexualism typology", to be more precise), not "AGP theory". So, I think, the "general trans-society" still confuses things.

That's not true. You can visit Scholar Google: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=aut...lia+theory
You'll find that several academic researchers call it "Blanchard's autogynephilia theory" in the title, and "autogynephilia theory" or "theory of autogynephilia" inside the text, for example:
Moser, C. (2010). Blanchard's autogynephilia theory: A critique. Journal of homosexuality, 57(6), 790-809.
Veale, J. F., Clarke, D. E., & Lomax, T. C. (2012). Male-to-female transsexuals’ impressions of Blanchard's autogynephilia theory. International Journal of Transgenderism, 13(3), 131-139.

On the other side, you haven't answered my central point: that there's no agreement between researchers about using AGP as a name for a fact or symptom, because proponents of rival theories reject Blanchard's claim that the experience is a paraphilia, and they don't use the word AGP as a name for the experience.

[Like Ra]

Our posts crossed 😊 I updated my post above with an article.

Here's another one:

https://doi.org/10.1027/1016-9040/a000276
Autogynephilia and the Typology of Male-to-Female Transsexualism

"In 1989, psychologist Ray Blanchard proposed that most nonandrophilic MtF transsexuals display a paraphilic sexual orientation called autogynephilia, defined as the propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of oneself as a woman. Studies conducted by Blanchard and colleagues provided empirical support for this proposal, leading to the hypothesis that almost all nonandrophilic MtF transsexuals are autogynephilic, whereas almost all androphilic MtF transsexuals are not. "

I think this is a perfect definition of both. BTW, please note the word "most" or "almost all" (not "all"), "proposed" (not "stated"), "hypothesis" (not "statement"). Perfectly scientific terms.

[princesitanatty]

Our posts crossed 😊 I updated my post  above with an article.

Here's another one:

https://doi.org/10.1027/1016-9040/a000276
Autogynephilia and the Typology of Male-to-Female Transsexualism

"In 1989, psychologist Ray Blanchard proposed that most nonandrophilic MtF transsexuals display a paraphilic sexual orientation called autogynephilia, defined as the propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of oneself as a woman. Studies conducted by Blanchard and colleagues provided empirical support for this proposal, leading to the hypothesis that almost all nonandrophilic MtF transsexuals are autogynephilic, whereas almost all androphilic MtF transsexuals are not. "

I think this is a perfect definition of both. BTW, please note the word "most"  or "almost all" (not "all"), "proposed" (not "stated"), "hypothesis" (not "statement"). Perfectly scientific terms.

I've answered your arguments. It's not true that academic researchers don't call it "AGP theory", I've given some references about this issue. Even your last link says in the abstract: "This article reviews the theory of autogynephilia".

Using scientific terms is not enough to conclude that the theory has good evidence. The proponents of rival theories also use scientific terms, and there's still a debate about these issues.

You haven't answered the main point, which is that there's no agreement about using AGP as the name of a fact or symptom, because critics reject the categorization of the experience as a paraphilia and propose alternative categories. The criticisms were made by several academic researchers, not just by trans activists, so you cannot dismiss them saying that the "trans society" has misunderstood Blanchard's theory.

[Like Ra]

You haven't answered the main point, which is that there's no agreement about using AGP as the name of a fact or symptom, because critics reject the categorization of the experience as a paraphilia and propose alternative categories.

You did not ask anything, how can I answer?

Let's open another can of worms:

Moser, C. (2010). Blanchard's autogynephilia theory: A critique. Journal of homosexuality, 57(6), 790-809.
Veale, J. F., Clarke, D. E., & Lomax, T. C. (2012). Male-to-female transsexuals’ impressions of Blanchard's autogynephilia theory. International Journal of Transgenderism, 13(3), 131-139.

Does this article have a doi.org reference page? All scientific articles do have such a reference.

International Journal of Transgenderism

Is it as scientific journal at all?

[dustymoon1]

You haven't answered the main point, which is that there's no agreement about using AGP as the name of a fact or symptom, because critics reject the categorization of the experience as a paraphilia and propose alternative categories.

You did not ask anything, how can I answer?

Let's open another can of worms:

Moser, C. (2010). Blanchard's autogynephilia theory: A critique. Journal of homosexuality, 57(6), 790-809.
Veale, J. F., Clarke, D. E., & Lomax, T. C. (2012). Male-to-female transsexuals’ impressions of Blanchard's autogynephilia theory. International Journal of Transgenderism, 13(3), 131-139.

Does this article have a doi.org reference page? All scientific articles do have such a reference.

International Journal of Transgenderism

Is it as scientific journal at all?

I would say YES!!!

https://www.tandfonline.com/journals/wijt20

[princesitanatty]

You haven't answered the main point, which is that there's no agreement about using AGP as the name of a fact or symptom, because critics reject the categorization of the experience as a paraphilia and propose alternative categories.

You did not ask anything, how can I answer?

You don't need an explicit question when you can understand the message. You've claimed that AGP is the name of a fact or symptom. I've showed you evidence that some academic researchers reject that claim, and that your claim is controversial within the academic community. You can accept or discuss the evidence.

Let's open another can of worms:

Moser, C. (2010). Blanchard's autogynephilia theory: A critique. Journal of homosexuality, 57(6), 790-809.
Veale, J. F., Clarke, D. E., & Lomax, T. C. (2012). Male-to-female transsexuals’ impressions of Blanchard's autogynephilia theory. International Journal of Transgenderism, 13(3), 131-139.

Does this article have a doi.org reference page? All scientific articles do have such a reference.

Yes, they have a doi.org reference:
https://doi.org/10.1080/00918369.2010.486241
https://doi.org/10.1080/15532739.2011.669659

International Journal of Transgenderism

Is it as scientific journal at all?

Yes, it is a scientific journal. This is the website: https://www.tandfonline.com/journals/wijt20

[Like Ra]

Yes, they have a doi.org reference:
https://doi.org/10.1080/00918369.2010.486241
https://doi.org/10.1080/15532739.2011.669659

Thanks much for the links! Let's dive in ...

Blanchard's Autogynephilia Theory suggests that the association between sexual orientation and autogynephilia among male-to-female transsexuals is clinically important and the association is always (or almost always) present.

- Remove the "Blanchard's" from the sentence, and you will almost get a tautology, where the term is explained using the term itself. So it's, in fact, "AGP related Blanchard's theory".
- Why did they rename the theory, which was called "transsexualism typology hypothesis"?
- Why did they say "always (or almost always) " when in fact it was "most"  or "almost all" (not "all"!)?
It's a subtle manipulation technique, which should not be present in scientific papers.

autogynephilia, or arousal by the thought or image of “himself” as a woman

Here we go, the definition of AGP! And once more:

Blanchard defined autogynephilia as “a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female” (CitationBlanchard, 1989a, p. 616). He derived the term from its Greek roots, love of oneself as a woman (CitationBlanchard, 1991, Citation2005), and later, expanded the term to denote “a male's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman … [and refers] … to the full gamut of erotically arousing cross-gender behaviors and fantasies” (1991, p. 235).

So:
- AGP is a paraphilia
- Blanchard's Autogynephilia Theory (BAT) is AGP related Blanchard's theory

I will read the article later. It looks VERY interesting!

[princesitanatty]

Yes, they have a doi.org reference:
https://doi.org/10.1080/00918369.2010.486241
https://doi.org/10.1080/15532739.2011.669659

Thanks much for the links! Let's dive in ...

Blanchard's Autogynephilia Theory suggests that the association between sexual orientation and autogynephilia among male-to-female transsexuals is clinically important and the association is always (or almost always) present.

- Remove the "Blanchard's" from the sentence, and you will almost get a tautology, where the term is explained using the term itself. So it's, in fact, "AGP related Blanchard's theory".
- Why did they rename the theory, which was called "transsexualism typology hypothesis"?
- Why did they say "always (or almost always) " when in fact it was "most"  or "almost all" (not "all"!)?
It's a subtle manipulation technique, which should not be present in scientific papers.

autogynephilia, or arousal by the thought or image of “himself” as a woman

Here we go, the definition of AGP! And once more:

Blanchard defined autogynephilia as “a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female” (CitationBlanchard, 1989a, p. 616). He derived the term from its Greek roots, love of oneself as a woman (CitationBlanchard, 1991, Citation2005), and later, expanded the term to denote “a male's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman … [and refers] … to the full gamut of erotically arousing cross-gender behaviors and fantasies” (1991, p. 235).

So:
- AGP is a paraphilia
- Blanchard's Autogynephilia Theory (BAT) is AGP related Blanchard's theory

I will read the article later. It looks VERY interesting!

There you have evidence that "AGP" is used as the name of a theory and as a name of a paraphilia. It's not that the author has "changed the name" of the theory, it's that Blanchard has proposed several hypotheses and theories that have different names. While there's agreement about using AGP as the name of a theory, there's disagreement about using AGP as the name of a paraphilia, because several researchers reject the claim that the experience is a paraphilia, and they prefer to use other words instead of AGP for that reason. The issue is still controversial, and different researchers are using different categories, hypotheses and theories.