(06 Apr 2022, 11:34 )Vixien Wrote: [ -> ]How to argue with these opinions 😱
Propaganda DOES work. And no sociology exists under dictate. It's not possible to get the real opinion, because people will respond with what they think they are expected to say. Otherwise, they risk serious repressions.
Imagine the recent opinion poll in RU, when people got called on their mobiles and told:"This is an anonymous poll". Oh yes, anonymous, of course! Their SIMs are registered with their passports! And people easily lose jobs for "likes", got thrown in jail for reposts, and fined for silently standing (see above).
A good electrician knows how to install electrics, and he buys what he can not make. Not everybody can cook or make clothes. They buy this stuff or gets it in return for their efforts.
Exactly the same happens with political views. People get "premade" opinions. Media forms the "world" for those, who do not have time, tools, skills to investigate, understand and process various opinions or information.
(06 Apr 2022, 13:53 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (06 Apr 2022, 11:41 )d7i Wrote: [ -> ]If Russia would have a glass ball and could see future actions of Ukraine military and make preemptive strikes, then they would probably do much better with their offensive in Ukraine. Apparently there are not doing as good as they expected, so it seems that they do not have glass ball and really should have waited for Ukrainians to attack first.
Do you mean UA was going to attack RU? Or did I misinterpret what I wrote?
That's what they say:
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/18/108179078...ia-donetsk
And here Russians claim to find documents:
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Russ...-0003.html
"The special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces, carried out since February 24, anticipated and foiled a large-scale offensive by Ukrainian troop strike groups in the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics, which are not controlled by Kiev, in March this year," he said.
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Russ...-0003.html
(06 Apr 2022, 14:10 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (06 Apr 2022, 11:34 )Vixien Wrote: [ -> ]How to argue with these opinions 😱
Propaganda DOES work. And no sociology exists under dictate. It's not possible to get the real opinion, because people will respond with what they think they are expected to say. Otherwise, they risk serious repressions.
Imagine the recent opinion poll in RU, when people got called on their mobiles and told:"This is an anonymous poll". Oh yes, anonymous, of course! Their SIMs are registered with their passports! And people easily lose jobs for "likes", got thrown in jail for reposts, and fined for silently standing (see above).
A good electrician knows how to install electrics, and he buys what he can not make. Not everybody can cook or make clothes. They buy this stuff or gets it in return for their efforts.
Exactly the same happens with political views. People get "premade" opinions. Media forms the "world" of those, who do not have time, tools, skills to investigate, understand and process various opinions or information.
I would expect for foreign people, having the ability to find this forum and actively participate in it, to be able to reflect on these points regarding their own situation. But perhaps I'm in a privileged position, being "brainwashed" in so far as to understand that it's no shame in admitting that your country has majorly fucked up at a certain point in history (if I haven't mentioned it, you may guess which part of Europe I'm coming from).
Let's continue. Imagine, a good guy, a professional in his profession, who's following all the rules, who's got his world perfectly formed and explained. And then you come and try to ruin his safe world, calling "black", what he is convinced to call "white', telling him things, that might get him into a serious trouble.
Do you think he will be happy?
Oh yes, I tried.
And finally... I was surprised to know that many Ukrainians in Ukraine (and outside) support Russian "operation".
(06 Apr 2022, 14:21 )d7i Wrote: [ -> ]"The special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces, carried out since February 24, anticipated and foiled a large-scale offensive by Ukrainian troop strike groups in the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics, which are not controlled by Kiev, in March this year," he said.
Lugansk and Donetsk belong to UA, not RU, right? So, UA was going to attack UA, not RU.
Then, the "separatists" came from RU and started all that crap in DNR/LNR with the support of RU army.
And finally, again and again. Beginning 2015 UA has been trying to get UN peacemakers in DNR/LNR. RU blocked that 11(!!!!) times!!! Why, do you think? Do you think RU wanted peace in that area?
(06 Apr 2022, 14:23 )Like Ra Wrote: [ -> ] (06 Apr 2022, 14:21 )d7i Wrote: [ -> ]"The special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces, carried out since February 24, anticipated and foiled a large-scale offensive by Ukrainian troop strike groups in the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics, which are not controlled by Kiev, in March this year," he said.
Lugansk and Donetsk belong to UA, not RU, right? So, UA was going to attack UA, not RU.
Then, the "separatists" came from RU and started all that crap in DNR/LNR with the support of RU army.
For western or Russian point of view?
From western UA wanted to get reclaim it's territories (if that's true, that they wanted to attack DNR/LNR in March, which I doubt as they could expect Russian troops awaiting just on the other side of the border after "exercises" to come with help). From Russian point they just wanted to save their people from Ukro-nazis.
And here is nice piece of propaganda -
Source:
https://twitter.com/irgarner/status/1511397836063232000
AFAIU they claim that they continue WWII, but now USA stepped in place of Germany - so you see plenty of shots from WWII, swastikas etc. Some Russian soldiers taken captivity claimed that they were really told they will be fighting against regular american troops in UA (and Ukro-nazis obviously)
(06 Apr 2022, 15:36 )d7i Wrote: [ -> ]For western or Russian point of view?
From the borders established in 1991 point of view.