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General TG, TS, TV and sex change thread
Of course we do not know what happened, when and why. But. One point. Charice was an adorable "girly girl" (not a tomboy at all) with "girly girl" manners, very feminine until 22. Then something happened. She began to change her style and came out as a lesbian. 2 years later she passed the point of no return. The question is - what happened to her around 20-21. Looks like a trauma... Was it the only "one direction" way?

Any comments from TGs?
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(12 Jul 2018, 01:26 )Like Ra Wrote: Of course we do not know what happened, when  and why. But. One point. Charice was an adorable "girly girl" (not a tomboy at all) with "girly girl" manners, very feminine until 22. Then something happened. She began to change her style and came out as a lesbian. 2 years later she passed the point of no return. The question is - what happened to her around 20-21. Looks like a trauma... Was it the only "one direction" way?

Any comments from TGs?

There could be any number of explanations. Reality is though that it was likely known from early on that they identified as male. It's more that the realization comes in time, not any trauma. 

For instance, I knew from age 4 I was "different". Wondered why I had to wear corduroys and checked shirts and play with GI Joe instead of wearing a nice dress and playing with barbies. At about age 11 I started dressing. At about age 13 started buying my own clothes. At that point (age 13+) I knew that I identified more as female. But this was the 80's... not LGBTQ friendly time. I hid it. I hid it well (until caught that is). 

Like him appearing girly girl, now appearing male, I appeared manly man and now appear female. I played hockey, even juniior and college hockey, played in a metal band, then joined the army. My first marriage was pretty much an attempt to "be a guy". Same with all the rest. Didn't work. My last year in the Canadian Forces I finally embraced who I knew I was and came out. Second to start transition in the CF.

When we transition (meaning living full time, taking hormones, etc) it is so that WE are happy. So he is doing what he needs to be happy with himself.
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Another point. (I just ... still can't believe Charice did that...) And more philosophical.

With how much responsibility should you treat the Gift you received? Imagine Rembrandt or Mozart with cut off by themselves fingers, or Hawking listening to bimbo hypno-files, because he decided that he's too smart.

Gifts, like Lives, can be given for a Purpose and taken back if the Purpose is not being pursued. You are either following "the path of the warrior", or not. Or was there another Purpose which required sacrificing of the Gift?

Just another example to explain my mourning.

Ariana is a huge talent. Fantastic voice. Ariana is 1 year younger than Charice. Let's compare (yeah, I know, in some cases it's a "bad practice"), their rendition of "I have nothing":

21yo Ariana Grande at the White House:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhEilzDwbxE


15yo Charice on Oprah:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uwlcqCUF7A


.... ooohhh what is going on with the world ....
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I'm literally crying:

You're gonna love me... And we will always love you...


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxH0tZPe_BY


Or did the world want too much from this girl? Bloody showbiz...

At least he's alive. And where's Whitney?
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Transitioning doesn't mean the gift is being wasted. It only means it is used differently. And in the end, what matters is no one else but the person who needs to transition. I'd much rather see a person transition and be happy, than be sad then take their life because of the pressures we face in society being trans and more so when that person is a public figure.
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(13 Jul 2018, 20:18 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: Transitioning doesn't mean the gift is being wasted.
In this case the voice (including intonation) is lost.

(13 Jul 2018, 20:18 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: I'd much rather see a person transition and be happy, than be sad then take their life
I totally understand this point and support it. But still I have a strong suspicion, that it was the media/public attention/expectations what led to the transitioning, not the gender dysphoria from the early childhood. I'm kinda investigating this in the General Hypnosis thread, e.g. https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...7#pid30367
Reply
(13 Jul 2018, 21:52 )Like Ra Wrote:
(13 Jul 2018, 20:18 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: Transitioning doesn't mean the gift is being wasted.
In this case the voice (including intonation) is lost.

(13 Jul 2018, 20:18 )vanessa_fetish Wrote: I'd much rather see a person transition and be happy, than be sad then take their life
I totally understand this point and support it.  But still I have a strong suspicion, that it was the media/public attention/expectations what led to the transitioning, not the gender dysphoria from the early childhood. I'm kinda investigating this in the General Hypnosis thread, e.g. https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...7#pid30367

If anything media attention etc would discourage transition. I have never heard or seen reported a case of actual transition where the cause is media, public attention etc. More likely he struggled to put it off as long as he could, to *avoid* extra attention.

I know how the media can be, I have been the subject of media attention myself (Ottawa Sun Newspaper Nov 9/98, defunct now Montreal Daily news in 88, countless radio shows and tv on the Sexplora TV show last year)
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Yes, you're 100% right Vanessa! I Googled around and found another interview with Oprah.

Quote:“I knew when I was five,” he told Winfrey at the time of his attraction to girls. “I was in grade school and I saw this girl, and I felt different. I didn’t know what it was, but I just knew … it felt special. And when I was 10, I was like, ‘Oh, that’s it. I’m gay.’ I found the word for who I really am.”

At that point, Winfrey asked whether the singer had ever considered himself transgender. “Were you thinking about, like, transitioning to become a male?” the talk show host asked.

“Not exactly transitioning to, like, a male-male,” Zyrus said at the time. “Basically, my soul is male, but I’m not going to go through that stage where I’m going to change everything. I’ll cut my hair and wear boy clothes and everything, but that’s all.”
Quote:“I felt [before] that I’m going to come out as a lesbian because I felt at the time, I said only being gay or being lesbian was recognized. Even though, before, I explained that I was a man, [what people would tell me was], ‘No, you’re a lesbian.’ It’s as if it was the only thing there was before.”

3 years later he transitioned.
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Another bookmark: http://www.apa.org/research/action/difference.aspx "Men and Women: No Big Difference"
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Not sure where to place it. I "was stumbled" upon this interesting theory: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/75430875 It's a huge thread I did not go through yet, but the idea revolves around autogynephilia. I can't agree with most of it, but there is definitely something reasonable about it. E.g. trying to run away from responsibilities. And autogynephilia does resonate...

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%...m_typology
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