General hypnosis and NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) discussion

[Like Ra]

Brainwashing requires conditioning.

What about propaganda, when only one sort of information is broadcasted, and the access to other information is limited? OTOH, conditioning might be implied here as punishment for sharing "the wrong" info... Mmm.... Yes, possibly you are right. Need to read about the brainwashing methods...

[sam_henry]

Plus there is a huge difference between conditioning and brainwashing.

This is like saying there's a huge difference between a dog and a poodle.

Brainwashing requires conditioning.

Yes you are right but just because you condition someone does not mean you are brainwashing them.  Goes both ways

[Like Ra]

Yes you are right but just because you condition someone does not mean you are brainwashing them.

As a logic behind a set and a subset (every poodle is a dog, but not every dog is a poodle) or overlapping sets (quartz, obsidian, opal are SiO2, but obsidian and opal are not even minerals).

Still, brainwashing requires a definition.

[Lycalopex]

Brainwashing requires conditioning.

What about propaganda, when only one sort of information is broadcasted, and the access to other information is limited? OTOH, conditioning might be implied here as punishment for sharing "the wrong" info... Mmm.... Yes, possibly you are right. Need to read about the brainwashing methods...

I'd say yes, propaganda still takes conditioning. Most often it's punishment and negative reinforcement-- think wrong, and you're punished; think right, and the bad things are removed. That still qualifies as conditioning, just not the normal "do the desired thing and get a reward" style.

[Lycalopex]

Plus there is a huge difference between conditioning and brainwashing.

This is like saying there's a huge difference between a dog and a poodle.

Brainwashing requires conditioning.

Yes you are right but just because you condition someone does not mean you are brainwashing them.  Goes both ways

Actually in this case it literally does not go both ways. Ra did in fact understand my argument:

Every poodle is a dog, not every dog is a poodle.
All brainwashing is conditioning, not all conditioning is brainwashing.

[sam_henry]

Brainwashing requires conditioning.

What about propaganda, when only one sort of information is broadcasted, and the access to other information is limited? OTOH, conditioning might be implied here as punishment for sharing "the wrong" info... Mmm.... Yes, possibly you are right. Need to read about the brainwashing methods...

I'd say yes, propaganda still takes conditioning. Most often it's punishment and negative reinforcement-- think wrong, and you're punished; think right, and the bad things are removed. That still qualifies as conditioning, just not the normal "do the desired thing and get a reward" style.

Most propaganda also trys to put the person in a emotional overload.  That helps push it.

[Lycalopex]

Brainwashing requires conditioning.

What about propaganda, when only one sort of information is broadcasted, and the access to other information is limited? OTOH, conditioning might be implied here as punishment for sharing "the wrong" info... Mmm.... Yes, possibly you are right. Need to read about the brainwashing methods...

I'd say yes, propaganda still takes conditioning. Most often it's punishment and negative reinforcement-- think wrong, and you're punished; think right, and the bad things are removed. That still qualifies as conditioning, just not the normal "do the desired thing and get a reward" style.

Most propaganda also trys to put the person in a emotional overload.  That helps push it.

I'd argue the "most" part, but yes, that is also used in cult brainwashing and conditioning. What's your point?

[Like Ra]

Most propaganda also trys to put the person in an emotional overload.  That helps push it.

Different subject. "Emotional overload" is a manipulation technique, which can be used anywhere.

[sam_henry]

Most propaganda also trys to put the person in an emotional overload.  That helps push it.

Different subject. "Emotional overload" is a manipulation technique, which can be used anywhere.

Propaganda was brought up I just went with it.

[Like Ra]

I just went with it

OK, but

What's your point?