Favourite, interesting or "playing now" music

[Like Ra]

I was "listening to" this song "in my head" for some time, then had a look in youtube and found this alternative version. At first I thought that the original version is more "right", I clearly preferred the familiar Jim's singing, OTOH, I think Manzarek was doing something different here, and I always loved his "meditations":

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_LMAINrHbQ

The song was performed live only twice, on the L.A. Woman tour at State Fair Music Hall, Dallas, TX. and at The Warehouse in New Orleans, Louisiana, on December 12, 1970. This was The Doors' last public performance with Jim Morrison. It was only the second date of the tour, but was also the last, as the tour was cancelled after this concert.

And this is how it was created:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3deQXzV-qTk

[Dworkin]

Greetings there All.

Like Ra and I seem to have dominated this thread with all about King Crimson so I'll only add a bit more related and then switch to the topic of drummers. Bill Bruford used to play with Yes, a very successful commercial band from decades ago that was heard on both Top 40 AM and FM. Yes was popular twice as they had a comeback years after their initial success. Bill left (as I recall) in the middle of a USA tour for the same reasons I always had with many that I played with- as a very talented and multibeat percussionist he was relegated with Yes to be basically a timekeeper and was not allowed to showcase his talents. Get a beat box if you just want someone to keep the beat. He was much more at home with Bob Fripp and company and also was the "other" drummer with Genesis after Peter Gabriel left when Phil Collins, their drummer took over the vocals as well as still playing drums but was not able to both all the time. That particular concert was fantastic as the two had a fab flow and it was one of the only concerts I have ever been to where everyone in the audience was actually in the audience. In other words, there were exceedingly few in the halls and the concession stands were empty. Also, Genesis was known as a "musicians band" for their precision live. There are some early live recording well worth the listening and "Trick of the Tail" was their first release after Peter left and another excellent example of superb progressive rock. 

As to "other drummers, Mitch Mitchel with Jimi Hendrix was a jazzer that fit very well with Jimi's free form guitar style and was a considerable influence on me. He had a classic drum setup- big bass drum with a tom tom and two floor toms very like Buddy Rich. And, he used Zildjian cymbals which I consider to be the finest cymbals ever made. He was a very "busy" sort with allsorts of fills and never sat still and like Jimi could be soft when needed. Left us too soon unfortunately though the "Experience" is immortal.  


I know I was going to get away from King Crimson but would be remiss were I not to mention Michael Giles whose style even after decades of listening continues to astound me. His technical timing never fails to catch my ear. He was only on the first album and try as I tried, I never came close to emulating his technique.


Related was Carl Palmer from Emerson, Lake and Palmer who had a more straight forward style and with the same drum set up as Buddy Rich and Mitch Mitchel. He as also a fine influence on my style and that first ELP recoding is still one of my favs. I got to see them at the time and was and still am blown away by the affair. He was ( as still is as he is still around) simply proficient as a multi talented drummer though I have made note that he appears to be using two bass drums now instead of one. And gosh, he has gray hair...


Phil Collins as mentioned with Genesis is another that I still relish, have seen numerous times and still am unable to discern how he did what he did. His back gave out and he has since quit drumming and again, the sonics remain in bank for any with interest. He also had side projects, one of note was Brand X where he explored a decidedly jazz oriented cant and any that only know Phil for his vocals need only to take a listen to Nuclear Burn which will dispel any notion that Phil could not play drums. He was another multi talented musician playing both guitar and keyboard quite well. Technically he was (probably still is) left handed and set his drums up accordingly. When I saw him solo he also played a Fender Strat that was the same color and model I have, a dark sunburst that he played it "upside down" same as Jimi Hendrix did as he was/is a lefty.  Good singer, far better drummer. On another side note, he played with Robert Fripp a number of times, live and on Robert's solo works. 

One much overlooked drummer is Jon Heisman, an English drummer most notable for involvement in Colosseum of which there were two versions, one in the later 1960's and one later that was more electronically oriented. He is another that had a not sit still fluid style that while busy was not overpowering, another I admire. He also played with many other musicians including Jack Bruce though most of these were as a session drummer. He is another that never fails to sparkle when I listen and have always lamented he never got more credit in the music world proper though that is as I've made plain often it is not uncommon among artists of any caliber. My main beef I that marginal talent gets sucked up by the mindless masses who would not know real talent were it dumped on them.


Anyway, that's some of my fav drummers. There are others along with groups and particularly guitarists. Let me leave off with this: As Like Ra mentioned a liking for poly rhythmic beats, Gene Krupa might be worth your ears. He was a powerhouse (big band era) driver and a little redundant for my tastes but another I well respect and had chance to see (briefly) from the sidewalk in 1967 (NYC) before the bouncers shooed me away and later at a Detroit suburb high school were I got to meet and talk with him on stage where he answered every question I posed, along with everyone else's (for over an hour!) which left a severe impression on me as so many "stars" have so little time for any that have an interest in a "celebrity". I vowed that were I ever in position to wow folks I'd be just like him as fans are like minor Gods. 

Tipples for now,
Dworkin

[Like Ra]

On another side note, he played with Robert Fripp a number of times, live and on Robert's solo works. 

Who? Phil Collins? Wow... Didn't now that...

Gene Krupa might be worth your ears.

Checking now...

[Like Ra]

Since we are talking about drummers... An amazing drummer Roy "Futureman" Wooten with his last gen drumitar:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy1rKA-0ExM

[Dworkin]

On another side note, he played with Robert Fripp a number of times, live and on Robert's solo works. 

Who? Phil Collins? Wow... Didn't now that...

Bob Fripp had a lot of folks that were on his solo and related works. Many were "one timers" but one must consider that in England proper back when that anyone who was anyone pretty much knew or at least was aware of everyone and getting together was basically a matter of how well they could get along. Steve Winwood from Traffic played on one of the early Crimson albums as well as less notable though still viable lesser knowns. Lots of musicians don't really care if they "make" it, they play to play, some choosing obscurity and become much better known after their life than when they were around (and occasionally make their publishers rich.) There are oodles of session players that rarely if ever hit a stage that play and have played with many that few outside music circles would ever know existed. A great example was the Detroit Motown collection where copious amounts of music from the era were produced in then a little known (and literally quite little) studio. When one thinks about it, how much room does one need to craft their craft? The final output to the listener (or recipient) of any work  seldom has any idea from whence it originated, from a well lighted comphy studio or study to a dumpy shack (in more than one case, recordings have been made in abandoned though modified raioad cars) to books written in a windowless closet. Associations can and do produce some fantastic works and lucky those that are able to enjoy.

Best, 
Dworkin

[Like Ra]

with Omar Hakim!!! on drums

Since I mentioned him. I love his precise, clean, distinctive, powerful, energetic, sharp, never overdone style:

And he's fun to watch:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF8QxlyJ_Ms

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtlPgkPM7Sw

[Like Ra]

BTW, easily the most known work of Omar Hakim is here:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0


And here's the story behind it:

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/clas...ey-nothing

Once all of the album's backing tracks had been completed, it was time to move on to the overdubs, and it was at that point, about a month into the project, that Knopfler realised all of the drum parts — and the drummer — had to be replaced. Neil Dorfsman had been of this opinion right from the get-go. "I'd always had my doubts that we were getting what we needed on the rhythm tracks, and I remember telling Mark early on that the drums weren't really happening," he says. "Initially, he didn't feel the same way, but after several weeks he picked up on my frustration. So, we decided to ditch the drums and bring in a new drummer to overdub onto the existing tracks. I remember Mark talking about maybe getting Roxy Music's Andy Newmark or the jazz drummer Peter Erskine, but eventually we sent for Omar Hakim. On the New York scene he was known more as a jazz-fusion drummer than as a rock drummer, but he was the kind of guy who could play anything and Mark was a big fan of his, so we brought him down to Montserrat and he re-did all of the tracks in about two and a half days. The first day he did about six, the next day he did three or four, and he was out of there by the third day. That was pretty mind-blowing.

The difference, once he played, was night and day. It really started to sound like a record. Omar is very, very confident as a musician and as a person, and what he brought to it was exactly what it needed, which was kind of a kick in the butt. Beforehand, it wasn't so much a comfort zone in the studio as it was an over-relaxed zone — we were there in Montserrat, it was beautiful, there was a lot of swimming, a lot of hanging out, and basically we got into a thing where the energy slowly, slowly, slowly ebbed away. It was like being on a vacation for a while and losing a little bit of edge without even realising it. The music needed that energy and we weren't really getting it. We weren't vibing at all, but then I remember Omar coming in and it was like a bulldozer — New York attitude, New York energy.

"He sat behind the kit, we did a run-through of 'So Far Away' — which ended up being the first song on the record — and it was just amazing. Not that he played anything so incredibly inventive, but it was just so right in terms of his vibe, his sound and his energy. We knew right away, and it continued from there. I think he did three takes of that song, three or four takes of each tune after that, and there was no compiling or even punching in. Omar listened to the tunes and they aeady had drums on there, so he knew what the parts would be, and then he just got on with the job. I mean, he brought his own feel to the material; a little bit more energy, a little bit more complicated playing, and I think it quite literally saved the project."

Terry Williams, meanwhile, was not a happy man, having been pushed by Neil Dorfsman since day one only to then be informed that his contributions wouldn't be used even before a replacement had been found. As it turned out, he was on his way to the airport at around the same time that Omar Hakim was flying in. An awkward situation for all concerned.

Perhaps my bedside manner wasn't the best in the sense that I always wanted the music to be the most important thing," Dorfsman now admits. "Not that I would be mean, but I would constantly be pushing for things to be different from how they were if they didn't feel right. At the same time, I would tell Mark my concerns, knowing that, as his co-producer, I could always take the blame if he decided to take action. That's part of the job description. And so finally, even though Mark had been a little bit more patient, a little bit more tolerant with the band, he got a sense that maybe things weren't happening the way they could and he decided to act.

"To me, the record was sounding more like a demo, and this really hit home when we tried to do the song 'Ride Across The River', with its white-boy reggae feel. It was laying there like lead. I don't think Terry felt that rhythm, and that was totally understandable. Having played with Dave Edmunds and Rockpile, that wasn't what he was famous for. He was a great drummer, but his style was more straight-ahead rock & roll, whereas Omar's style was more polyrhythmic and better suited to the direction in which Mark was going. The material needed the kind of glossy sheen that Omar brought, as well as his versatility — there was a lot of different music on the record: 'Your Latest Trick' was kind of jazzy and 'Ride Across The River' had that reggae-ish feel, so we needed a drummer who was versed in a lot of different styles and Omar fit the bill in that regard.

"Believe me, it was a load off my mind when he played that first tune and knocked everybody out. It was a big deal to fly somebody in from New York, not really knowing 100 percent if things would go according to plan. I had worked with him a bunch in the past and knew he was great, but I still didn't really know if he was going to be the right guy for the job. Thank God, for that particular record, the right call was made. There were definitely some sweaty moments."

Now compare the studio version with a live one without Omar (and Sting), but with Eric Clapton:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zOjRlVpAOQ

[Zooy]

Let me sound a dissanant here.
I am into classical music. But I also like John Adams.
The dharma at big sur is realy fantastic.

[Like Ra]

But I also like John Adams.
The dharma at big sur is realy fantastic.

Any links/Youtube/Vevo videos?

[Dworkin]

with Omar Hakim!!! on drums
Since I mentioned him. I love his precise, clean, distinctive, powerful, energetic, sharp, never overdone style:

And he's fun to watch:

Simply Excellent! You are right, he does not overplay nor overpower. I used to get flak for not being "loud" enough. I'm just not nor ever have been a beater. Omar is what is called an "open hand" drummer in that he holds his sticks in both hands the same way as opposed to the "classic" manner. Phil Collins was also. And Omar does not miss a beat- his choice and use of cymbals is fantablous as I LOVE cymbals. And God, what a light touch! Thanks Boss. He is one I need to investigate investing in. I only watched the first vid and have to say, were I to move like that (which I did) I would have been soaked in sweat and he makes it look so flowingly effortless. Thanks yet again for opening this vista. And anther thing I made note about- he smiles or at the least does not have that serious look that soooooo many self important musicians display and as the article makes plain, his karma puts others at ease which I need say relates to an unusually healthy ego. Just a smashingly great drummer.


Tipples,
Dworkin