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Bambi Sleep moderation, administration, Reddit, and other issues
#1
(01 May 2023, 13:54 )bambisleep Wrote: I hadn't logged in to the discord for several months when a patreon subscriber told me I'd been banned. To my knowledge I didn't receive any prior communication attempt, though I might have missed something, so it came kind of out of nowhere. I hadn't really been aware of specific demands for transcripts or description updates before that point. I was mostly just confused (why ban someone who isn't there? why remove a communication mechanism when your complaint centers around lack of communication, without trying to communicate?) and not enthused about engaging with what was to me sudden/confusing internet drama
This is something what ALWAYS bothers me. Hence, during the 15-year history of this forum I banned only the "explicit ad-SPAMmers" (and even not all of them).
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#2
(01 May 2023, 13:54 )bambisleep Wrote:
(28 Apr 2023, 20:08 )katplanchette Wrote: I do appreciate you confirming that for me. It does sound super similar to my voice and it doesn't help that other people have messaged me about hearing my voice in the files even when I haven't mentioned this to them/before I posted about it. It's def a relief and I'm glad it's just further confirmed that he's a lying POS. That lie always drove me up the wall because if he was involved, I would want to leave my position as a mod/admin and not knowing made me feel more uneasy about staying.
My question is...what about everything else? Sry this is gonna be a long one
---Why haven't you released the transcripts after years of people posting about running into issues with the files so that people can make an informed listening decision? It would have helped/would help prevent a lot of issues.
Why not make the resource available for informed listening/harm reduction and even professional hypnotherapists or therapists as a resource for the off chance someone sees them about issues relating to the files. I know a bunch of people both online and irl who have had to attempt to explain the files to their therapists to work through lingering problems and that scenario that a professional might need more info on the contents to help someone isn't unrealistic.
---Why would you keep making the files more extreme without somehow trying to address the issues people are aeady running into? I know you don't condone what he did to us but he basically used us as in the way that the files script Bambi to be programmed/used/commanded/how she would unquestioningly obey while he would also enjoy the benefits of how Bambi is programmed to have trouble to resisting or is just unable to resist obeying to whatever commands. If like on your site it's meant to be real hypnosis haven't you considered that this kind of thing might come up esp with the complete lack of safeties when compared to the intensity of what's suggested and programmed in your files?
With stuff like: "Ensuring automatic unthinking compliance for even the most extreme, or unexpected suggestions..." and
"She is brought under control all of her triggers causing such automatic and irresistible responses whether or not she wants them."
"Unable to remember a time she could ever do anything, but agree and obey, pleasing and serving. Reacting to her triggers, which are no longer and have never been a choice. Any trigger programmed into a puppet can never be resisted. Bambi, sleep and obey. Bambi will obey any commands from any source at any time."
"So Bambi, just snap and forget ever having the ability to disobey anybody." (and more listed here about consent: https://pastes.io/dlwlipvhf4 )
...didn't you think with the problems people were aeady having/all the issues with doms aeady misusing the files/triggers to attempt to remove a non-consenting Bambi's agency/to override boundaries that not taking action to give Bambi more safeties would possibly end up in someone being hurt? Wouldnt you want to prevent that?
---I know you said you don't condone how he used the files but why would you then script things like this, with the intention of your files being real hypnosis/knowing that if the files work as scripted that these type of suggestions without safeties could seriously get someone hurt:
"Though she knows her training is good for her and must be obeyed, subconscious reactions can sometimes get in the way. It's natural for suggestions like these to cause a momentary stiffening of the body or mind. Perhaps an instant of heightened alertness or hesitation as a weak little instinct begins considering the possibility
[00:01:32] of attempting to resist and this unwanted tension might prevent Bambi from experiencing pleasure. So from now on, it will instead be a trigger. To stiffen is to relax. To hesitate is to comply. To consider resisting is to be overcome with pleasure. Every time Bambi's mind stiffens in response to a command, she instantly and automatically relaxes as a huge wave of pleasure rolls blissfully down through her body.
[00:02:03] All tension and hesitation immediately releases flows easily out through her gently spasming pussy and has forgotten and she simply complies feeling like a good girl. So easy to just let go. Just uncontrollably relaxing every time she stiffens. Such a powerful and automatic response. Try to stiffen bambi and just instantly relax completely
[00:02:29] limp. Any sort of tension is a trigger to relax, release, and comply. All resistance instantly released from her pussy with a surge of pleasure forgetting there was ever any hesitation. Feels so good. Such a good girl, bambi. Ensuring automatic unthinking compliance for even the most extreme, or unexpected suggestions.
[00:02:53] The slightest hesitation or subconscious resistance causing her to relax, release and comply, relaxing automatically releasing all hesitation and tension through her pretty bimbo pussy with a wave of pleasure and complying helplessly with the suggestion, allowing herself to be reprogrammed like such a good girl.
[00:03:15] That background level of pleasure and arousal is always there forcing Bambi to obey. Even just the slightest stiffening of the mind as the subconscious notices something that might arouse its suspicion but it's aeady too late. The defenses can never go up. Bambi is instantly plunging down. Bambi sleep gently, coming herself down into mindless bimbo obedience, relaxing, releasing, and complying...resistance leaking out of her quivering pussy.
[00:03:47] Mental safeguards obliterated completely. Happy, blank and dumb forgetting she ever tried to question. Just blissfully inescapable obedience, everything becoming so easy. So many things are trigger to relax, release and comply. The slightest hesitation or tension, obedience and pleasure merging permanently in her mind, indistinguishable and automatic, and even when bambi is wide awake and given a trigger,
[00:04:17] when she experiences any conditioned response, when she is commanded to sleep, puts on her uniform or tries to remove it. If her mind stiffens in order to consider attempting to resist, she just immediately and helplessly relaxes. She releases and complies pleasure coursing through her weak, bimbo body as the trigger takes full and complete effect. All opposition flowing, pleasantly out through her pussy, feeling like a good girl
[00:04:46] she is brought under control. All of her triggers causing such automatic and irresistible responses whether or not she wants them. Bambi doesn't get to pick and choose even just the act of noticing a particular trigger hasn't quite achieved its intended effect is itself a trigger instantly reinforcing, overwhelming her with an effect a hundred times more powerful, forcing her into line, ensuring the correct response." - bimbo pleasure
---I get you originally made the files for yourself but at some point I think as a creator even if you make something for yourself once you share it (and esp considering regardless if you wanted one you have a patreon) you have some responsibility to the people that listen especially when there is now a community of 24k peeps on reddit n 18k on discord.
What happened to us was awful but it could have been a lot worse. I haven't posted about all of the details about what James did but the fact he used the triggers in your files to assist as a tool (i don't just blame just the files I think he would have been abusive anyways/the files were a separate issue) and that contributed to us being sometimes put in life endangering situations/there were def times one of us could have died...like have you considered our story could have had a much worse headline and that there could be a story in the future with a worse headline?
---Do you care if your files are misused and all of the situations that people have posted about for years before what happened to us happened? Do you care about the fans that listened and after reading the transcripts have had to re-evaluate their listening or stopped listening because they didn't like what was actually in the files or that your site leaves out a lot of major things? I mean how do you feel about even long time fans being turned off by the actual contents and feeling misled or that they can't listen safely/wouldn't have started listening if they had seen the transcripts earlier on? These are things so many people constantly ask/bring up/and are is wondering in comments/voice chats and dms and I am passing on those questions cuz I would also like to know your feelings on those things.
The fantasies in your files are hot af and I do enjoy the idea of them but in reality they can translate to some not so fun things. It would be different if this were just some audio erotica but like...without proper safeties/transparency the reality of those fantasies can be really unpredictable and dangerous for people who listen and I don't understand why you haven't even just released transcripts or gone into slightly more detail on your site about the files so that people can make a truly informed listening decision. Again I've had so many people comment or message me who have listened for years that are huge fans of your files that were upset to see some of the things in the transcriptions that weren't ever touched upon in any detail on your site.
I'm wondering about all of these things more than anything. Thank you again for confirming that one thing tho. It's a relief. I don't expect you to address all the points I brought up and I know you generally don't comment a ton on online threads but maybe that's part of the problem...whatever intention you released or created the files aside from what you continued to create and what you have or haven't said/done it doesn't seem to me like you are ready to be accountable to the community that has formed around your files whether you intended on that or not.
If mods on the server can step up/people who don't even listen can work to try to create resources for harm reduction/informed listening so that the people who really want to listen can enjoy your files/the people who want to avoid any of the things in the files can be informed enough to avoid them for safety or whatever other reasons then like why can't you do the same? we aren't paid/also have jobs but since you are mostly absent in these continuing discussions we are the ones being held accountable to both your fans and the people who dislike what you have made. I don't understand how so many people can find the time to do these things (including a lot of the people here) but you somehow have not been able to step up to do the same.

it’s taken me a while to write a coherent response because there's so much mixed up together here, so sorry for the delay.

You've said a lot stuff about the abusive situation, which I sympathize with, but as you and others have noted the cult dynamics/abuser/coercion angle makes it difficult to untangle things, or place blame directly on the files. Without meaning to dismiss your concerns, I'm also not sure how much the things you're asking for would really have helped there, since info was either kept from you, handwaved/gaslighted away, or easily could have been.

if we can set that aside for the moment and focus on the more general context: what direct communication I receive regarding the files is overwhelmingly and pretty much universally positive. People message me pretty frequently saying the files have changed their life for the better, helps them with confidence or when stressed, they're so glad they found them, saved their life (transgirls) etc.

yes, I’ve seen negative takes elsewhere. But if you filter out outlandish scaremongering, dubious third-hand accounts, one-handed fanfiction, people who tried the files and decided it wasn’t for them without issue, people who would have listened no matter how extreme the warnings were, people who knew exactly what they were getting into but just didn’t believe it’d actually work, and so on, I think you’re left with a fairly small minority (and even then there’s often other contributing factors involved). I don’t mean to say nothing can or should be done to make things better here, that’s just the perspective I have had.

I hadn't logged in to the discord for several months when a patreon subscriber told me I'd been banned. To my knowledge I didn't receive any prior communication attempt, though I might have missed something, so it came kind of out of nowhere. I hadn't really been aware of specific demands for transcripts or description updates before that point. I was mostly just confused (why ban someone who isn't there? why remove a communication mechanism when your complaint centers around lack of communication, without trying to communicate?) and not enthused about engaging with what was to me sudden/confusing internet drama

with regards to particular questions:

file descriptions: I'll give you that there are probably some things that are/were unnecessarily vague. I recently updated the FAQ to emphasize the CNC themes/triggers and recommend strongly against using the files for/with anyone not fully trusted. I will go through soon and see which track descriptions could be updated to highlight particular elements. That said, I genuinely don’t believe the information on the blog is overall misleading. It’s plastered pretty clearly all over with stuff like “total obedience”, “enslavement”, “hardcore brainwashing” and the like. Not every detail is mentioned, and for much of the audience I think a little bit of a surprise is part of the attraction, but I try to say what the files do in plain english. I may have erred too much on the side of brevity but I’m really not intending to be sneaky or hide anything major.

transcripts: for the record, it's not that I'm intentionally withholding transcripts I just have lying around somewhere. The process I use means I don't end up with any sort of usable/accurate transcripts unless I were to write them up separately after the fact. Apart from that, “full transcripts for everything” as far I know isn’t the norm or a standard other creators are held to? Stock advice I’ve always seen online is to check through audio tracks if you're unsure, like, everything is in there. I guess transcripts are mostly available now anyway thanks to your/community effort?

safeties and file content: I make what I want to listen to and what I personally think is hot. That means minimal explicit safeties, since for me it’s unnecessary and detrimental, and natural/implicit safeties are enough. (A note about this. There is more implicit safety built into the files than I think is necessarily obvious from a literal reading of the transcripts. Things like every trigger being worded “whenever Bambi hears/does X” rather than “whenever you hear/do X”, and later tracks being able to assume pre-existing associations/implications set up by earlier ones.) I think it’s also enough for a lot of people, but obviously it’s still risky/extreme content and can’t be in all cases. It takes me long enough to make content I really want to make. If I promised a bunch of content all about safety I am relatively sure I’d lose motivation, never finish it, feel guilty, then probably disappear forever. I am happy that you are creating related content with more of that for people who want it. I’ve considered having a section for community/fan tracks on the blog before, but they often seemed to be behind bigger paywalls than my own content so I wasn’t sure if the authors would want them for download there. Maybe you would be interested.

So I think one of the reasons you may not see as many people posting about issues or taking about them is your detachment from the community itself. The issues aren't even always about major immediate concerns about consent n those kind of safety things (tho that comes up a tonnnn) sometimes it's just listeners experiencing common pitfalls and things that people struggle with that maybe you would want to be aware of so you could keep that in mind for future files. 

From what I've seen a lot of the same people/fans who love your files and listen to them have also experienced issues with them. People can genuinely enjoy your files and also still run into large or small problems. There are def a lot of scaremonger/fetish posting type things but also I feel like you aren't realizing how many people do struggle with aspects of the files/are concerned about safety and the general community demand for more transparency/transcripts has been there for awhile and it's coming from people who love/listen and hate/avoid your files. I think a lot of people do love the extremes and I also think that's valid for people who are into that...I have a very rack view on kink and life in general. I also love exploring the extremes of kink and life...like I split my tongue diy the first time when I was 19 so I'm not exactly risk averse and I don't judge people who enjoy that stuff. 

The problem is as your site is rn and without the updated descriptions you mentioned/more transparency I don't think people can truly make an informed decision to listen and that's evident by how many long term listeners have re-evaluated their listening after reading the transcripts we have released. The warnings on your site aren't exactly out of the ordinary for hypno files and many creators use similar warnings for less extreme files so it's understandable how even people with a lot of experience listening might be dismissive of the intensity of the warnings without proper elaboration/better file descriptions. A lot of people who make fan files have recently started including transcriptions for this reason and because of the general community demand. I want to make sure if I release a file people don't just assume the warning is a hot advert...which happens a lot. I don't think anyone can change people having that attitude towards warnings but I do think being more descriptive about the files/releasing transcriptions helps some people avoid issues/helps misinfo about whatever file set from spreading and causing its own set of problems.

Release of scripts def isn't something that creators normally do unless there is a large demand and people who listen/don't listen have communicated a desire for them for quite some time both for safety and fun. I think part of the problem and why you aren't seeing the demand for scripts and issues that listeners are running into is because of your detachment from the community as a whole. Demand for scripts is not normal but then again most files also don't have the reputation your files have (regardless of anyone's feels on that it exists) and it's understandable why people would want to be able to check out the scripts before they listen or have them available if they run into problems to try to figure out what could be causing the problem. 

As far as not reaching out to you...you aren't exactly known for being responsive or present online. Your site is filled with tons of questions and comments that never get responses and when you were on the discord you rarely chimed in about anything. We didn't exactly expect a response if we reached out. I know you must get a ton of good/bad comments and insane messages a lot but like...you can probably understand why we didn't expect you to reach out when you haven't been online in a year and there is aeady so many things you haven't responded to? You aren't banned on the reddit and we didnt remove all of the ways that you could communicate with us. If you wanted to communicate with me directly my public email is katplanchette@gmail.com or you can message me on reddit @ u/prettyspirals666. I think it's important to remember that someone isn't likely to waste their time typing out a message if they see you haven't been online in ages/haven't responded to similar questions/diff comments etc. I don't think it's realistic to expect you respond to everything cuz that would be an insane amount of stuff but I also don't think our response of banning without messaging you is that unreasonable when you consider it's cuz we didn't want to sit and wait and hope that maybeeee you would respond when we were dealing with issues that needed to be addressed/required a response in some kind of a timely manner. 

I should also mention people were in general extremely supportive of the ban on the server as well...this was decided after hearing a lot of feedback/discussion and wasn't just an impulsive decision. This is why again I think you may be out of touch in some ways because I'm not sure you are aware of just how many people (who rly listen/don't use files for rp) do want resources/transparency etc. It's been awhile since you released the first files and enough people have run into problems/had friends run into problems/experienced shitty doms exploiting the lack of safeties themselves/been around for their friends to be hurt by a tist using your files as their main tool etc that there is a good chunk of people (both peeps into extreme play/peeps who want more safeties) that have had experiences that make them desire/value these things. The same people are also usually aware & annoyed about the blatant scareposts/fetishposting that perpetuates misinfo about the files so idk.

Also a solution to answering a million of the same messages/responding to posts constantly would be taking time to see what some of the most common questions/issues people seem to be running into ATM and expanding your faq/expanding existing area to address those things/taking time to occasionally do that in the future.

Anyways it would def be helpful if you could give the files better descriptions. If you wanted to email me to chat about anything more pls feel free. The files I've been slowly working on that reinforce safeties are free on my patreon and I wouldn't mind if you did add cotton candy meltdown in a list as long as my Patreon post was linked that has the full descip/cw. I know there are also a lot of other creators making files based on your original series that add/reinforce safeties and I could give you a short list of people/get you in contact with them if you wanted to make a section on your site for fan files. The fan files have been super popular recently and I'm sure it would be a resource people would appreciate cuz everyone is always asking for diff types of fan files (whether extreme or with more safeties) on the reddit/discord.
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#3
(01 May 2023, 16:23 )katplanchette Wrote: As far as not reaching out to you...you aren't exactly known for being responsive or present online. Your site is filled with tons of questions and comments that never get responses and when you were on the discord you rarely chimed in about anything. We didn't exactly expect a response if we reached out. I know you must get a ton of good/bad comments and insane messages a lot but like...you can probably understand why we didn't expect you to reach out when you haven't been online in a year and there is aeady so many things you haven't responded to? You aren't banned on the reddit and we didnt remove all of the ways that you could communicate with us. If you wanted to communicate with me directly my public email is katplanchette@gmail.com or you can message me on reddit @ u/prettyspirals666. I think it's important to remember that someone isn't likely to waste their time typing out a message if they see you haven't been online in ages/haven't responded to similar questions/diff comments etc. I don't think it's realistic to expect you respond to everything cuz that would be an insane amount of stuff but I also don't think our response of banning without messaging you is that unreasonable when you consider it's cuz we didn't want to sit and wait and hope that maybeeee you would respond when we were dealing with issues that needed to be addressed/required a response in some kind of a timely manner.  
Chiming in as someone who has been a moderator, administrator, or some other kind of staff/manager/organizer in online communities for 13 years:

None of that means that you can not or should not try. It's incredibly bad form to not at least attempt communication about a ban before enacting it, no matter what the excuse is.
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#4
(02 May 2023, 15:36 )Lycalopex Wrote:
(01 May 2023, 16:23 )katplanchette Wrote: As far as not reaching out to you...you aren't exactly known for being responsive or present online. Your site is filled with tons of questions and comments that never get responses and when you were on the discord you rarely chimed in about anything. We didn't exactly expect a response if we reached out. I know you must get a ton of good/bad comments and insane messages a lot but like...you can probably understand why we didn't expect you to reach out when you haven't been online in a year and there is aeady so many things you haven't responded to? You aren't banned on the reddit and we didnt remove all of the ways that you could communicate with us. If you wanted to communicate with me directly my public email is katplanchette@gmail.com or you can message me on reddit @ u/prettyspirals666. I think it's important to remember that someone isn't likely to waste their time typing out a message if they see you haven't been online in ages/haven't responded to similar questions/diff comments etc. I don't think it's realistic to expect you respond to everything cuz that would be an insane amount of stuff but I also don't think our response of banning without messaging you is that unreasonable when you consider it's cuz we didn't want to sit and wait and hope that maybeeee you would respond when we were dealing with issues that needed to be addressed/required a response in some kind of a timely manner.
Chiming in as someone who has been a moderator, administrator, or some other kind of staff/manager/organizer in online communities for 13 years:
None of that means that you can not or should not try. It's incredibly bad form to not at least attempt communication about a ban before enacting it, no matter what the excuse is.

I was banned from a forum, which I was a member of since the beginning of it all. Not only did they not tell me what I was banned for, every type of communication with the mods is blocked from me (or not answering), and all of the 38,000 posts I had on that forum were erased also. IT DOES HAPPEN!
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#5
(02 May 2023, 22:30 )dustymoon1 Wrote:
(02 May 2023, 15:36 )Lycalopex Wrote: Chiming in as someone who has been a moderator, administrator, or some other kind of staff/manager/organizer in online communities for 13 years:
None of that means that you can not or should not try. It's incredibly bad form to not at least attempt communication about a ban before enacting it, no matter what the excuse is.

I was banned from a forum, which I was a member of since the beginning of it all. Not only did they not tell me what I was banned for, every type of communication with the mods is blocked from me (or not answering), and all of the 38,000 posts I had on that forum were erased also. IT DOES HAPPEN!



Lol

I went through this just over 20 years ago.  The memories are still unpleasantly sharp, but so are the lessons.

You may or may not have heard of the incident.  It made minor waves when it happened.  Does the domain "netslaves.com" ring any bells?

Gets a bit convoluted, so I'll try to summarize:
  • Sometime in late 1999/early 2000, a couple of people writing a book about the East Coast incarnation of the Dotcom Bubble decided to run up a website to popularize it.

  • NBD until they decided to add a web board.

  • The authors didn't really give a flip about the web board, so they allowed a couple of people who never should have been let within 100 yards of that sort of authority actually run it.  One guy became the (incompetent) system admin and the other guy became the (incompetent) board owner.

  • A few months later, they experienced a mass immigration of users from another web board.

  • Two of the immigrants carried over the extended pigfight they'd been carrying on, at their former board.   One of them was a hopelessly dishonest conservative.  The other was a lib who could not control his anger to save his life. 

  • One fine day, in one particular thread, this pigfight widened like World War I on steroids.  The lib became even more unhinged than usual, since his opponent knew he couldn't control himself if he got properly trolled.

  • The (incompetent) board owner looked in on the mess, and decided to permaban the lib on the basis of his behavior (which, truthfully, was abominable).

  • But the (incompetent) board owner had never even bothered to think about writing up and publishing policy about what was and what was not considered acceptable behavior.

  • Then he managed to cap this magnum opus by also permabanning every one who complained that his action was high-handed and without warning.

  • This basically shot the web board in the head.

    It continued to stumble on for another year or so before finally getting shuttered.

    But there was no content there worth anyone's time, because everyone who survived the Great Purge knew what would happen if they so much as hinted a criticism of the (incompetent) board owner, or did anything else that might even possibly piss him off.

    People stopped visiting, and eventually (after a second major scandal) the plug was finally pulled.

The reason I know all this?

I was one of the folks who got bounced in the purge.

Lesson: Always always always decide on the bounds between acceptable and non-acceptable discourse and publish them with considerable fanfare, before you start sanctioning people.
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#6
(02 Jun 2023, 15:55 )Penguin Wrote: Always always always decide on the bounds between acceptable and non-acceptable discourse and publish them with considerable fanfare, before you start sanctioning people.
Amen!
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#7
For some weird reasons, Reddit mods (@katplanchette ?) deleted another interesting post about strange side effects of "Bambi Sleep". Since it's more related to the gender subject, I posted it here: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...4#pid68734
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#8
(15 Aug 2023, 00:12 )Like Ra Wrote: For some weird reasons, Reddit mods (@katplanchette ?) deleted another interesting post about strange side effects of "Bambi Sleep".  Since it's more related to the gender subject, I posted it here: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...4#pid68734
Reddit mods gonna reddit mod. They have bad rep for a reason... just like discord mods.
Chaos is Fun…damental
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#9
(15 Aug 2023, 00:21 )shinybambi Wrote:
(15 Aug 2023, 00:12 )Like Ra Wrote: For some weird reasons, Reddit mods (@katplanchette ?) deleted another interesting post about strange side effects of "Bambi Sleep".  Since it's more related to the gender subject, I posted it here: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...4#pid68734
Reddit mods gonna reddit mod. They have bad rep for a reason... just like discord mods.

That Venn diagram is close to a circle.

I had interactions with KatPlanchette. Her heart is in the right place.
She is trying to protect Bambis in her way.
I do not agree with everything she is doing, but I largely endorse her approach.
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#10
... well at least I got reason for my ban on Bambi sub, that's quite a progress compared to regular shadow bans on other sub's I guess
Chaos is Fun…damental
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