09 Aug 2023, 10:44
(09 Aug 2023, 09:54 )Zooy Wrote: I disagree completely with your interpretation of quantum mechanics. Even the devise on which you are typing is completely ruled by quantum mechanics, and although you may argue that it still behaves as one would expect from macroscopic rules, this will stop immediately once you enter the realm of quantum computing.This is why I specifically carved out 1b as a separate model from 1a.
It's worth noting however, that in the double-slit experiment for example, the pattern of hits on the sensor always ends up the same. If you entangle two particles, the sum of their entangled properties always equals zero (e.g. clockwise + counter-clockwise).
(09 Aug 2023, 09:54 )Zooy Wrote: Anyway, nature is chaotic, which means that even extremely small causes can have macroscopic effects.Sort of, hence my mention of e.g. weather forecasting. But you need to be careful when defining things like "chaotic" or "random" because the laws of physics are absolutely ironclad, even if they allow a modicum of chaos, real or apparent.
(09 Aug 2023, 09:54 )Zooy Wrote: And those quantum effects fall is the domain of small causes. Whether a positron electron pair pops up from the vacuum for a very short time is totally random, but it can cause effects.The "totally random" bit is why I make a point of talking about un-caused effects. As for the nature of quantum stuff being small causes... sure, sometimes. But try mapping out what would have to go EXACTLY right for a single quantum event to cause you to pick apples instead of oranges. Your hypothetical positron must cause a runaway cascade to have any impact, and positive feedback loops and such are exceedingly rare in nature - negative feedback loops tend to rule.
But still and all, granting you all of this, you still only get to the idea of random will.
(09 Aug 2023, 09:54 )Zooy Wrote: I think that in order to come up with answers, as so often, you should first understand the question (where did we hear that before?). What do you call free will? To me this absolutely not clear.See (2) in my first post (did you even read beyond 1a?) If free will is just "I follow my programming" then the phrase is meaningless (literal falling rocks have free will now), and if it's "I follow my programming + the odd bit of RNG input" it's still nonsense, because you're not actually making a choice - you CAN'T. It's not like you decide where/when/how the quantum effects pop up and interfere with your clockwork brain. The best you can say is "well I have the illusion of free will" which is... philosophically unsound, to put it mildly.