(26 Jan 2021, 08:26 )peterpumm Wrote: it's all word games. Hypnosis on a different level. "PR."
(26 Jan 2021, 08:26 )peterpumm Wrote: Everything we experience today is to keep us constantly traumatised and mindfucked.
Exactly, but we were talking about subliminals and their efficacy, not about propaganda and mind control. Very interesting subjects on their own, and deserve a separate thread(s).
As for subliminals, they might work for priming, they might add a bit of weight when the choice is close to 50/50, but as the main method in, say, brainwashing? I don't think so...
(25 Jan 2021, 17:52 )peterpumm Wrote: Do you think the powers that invest into society wide brainwashing experiments want the public to know that their shit actually works?
The scientific society would definitely publish something. And there must be a reason why MKUltra project was cancelled. Because it was not working?
Sometimes things are canceled cause they learned enough and proven to be not effective enough or reliable to use.
Look into there remote viewing study's. There's some solid proff it's real but not reliable enough to count on it. Only very few people can produce reliable results on a regular basis.
I'm under the impression that things like MKUltra and Stargate Project were "cancelled" because they generated enough information about it.
As for it working or not, that might not have been the point. A lot of these were extremely experimental US Government-backed projects that were long shots, and they likely had branches from their original purpose into another project.
Anyway, why do we think that studies on subluminal messaging tend to lean towards it being possible in recent studies vs previous?
21 Feb 2021, 11:51 (This post was last modified: 21 Feb 2021, 12:34 by Hypno_J.)
(25 Jan 2021, 17:57 )Like Ra Wrote:
(25 Jan 2021, 17:52 )peterpumm Wrote: Do you think the powers that invest into society wide brainwashing experiments want the public to know that their shit actually works?
The scientific society would definitely publish something. And there must be a reason why MKUltra project was cancelled. Because it was not working?
The reason why we don't have specific details from the scientific society is because scientists working with the military are bound by non-disclosure contracts.
About the MK Ultra protocol, the process is very simple and all separate elements are aeady documented individually. It's about creating a trauma, to induce a dissociative identity disorder in the subject, so that it develops one or more additional personality states. The dissociative identity disorder, with multiple personality states, is documented in many scientific publications including the DSM-5 (the DSM is the main reference book for psychiatry).
In this specific protocol, a trigger phrase is associated with the trauma so that the handler can make the subject switch personalty as wanted. Since the new personality was crated by the psyche to cope with the trauma, it's possible to control the new personality using it, and using the chance of trauma avoidance as a convincing leverage.
Persons with DID (not related to MK Ultra) say that triggers associated with the traumatic event crate a flashback of the event in their mind, and that's what makes them switch to the alternative personality. They also say that triggers don't always have the same effectiveness, so it must depend on people, trauma, situations and so on. (There are plenty of people witnessing about DID on Youtube, including people switching personality on camera.)
So, MK Ultra only uses simple elements: DID induced on purpose by trauma, trigger phrase associated with trauma to make the subject switch personality, psychology methods (with hypnosis, NLP, drugs...) to condition and command the alternative personality, using the avoidance of trauma as a leverage. (This is my personal addition, but the alternate personality seems usually way more simple and one-sided than the main personality, more child-like, making it also easier to convince and control.)
All of those elements do exist and are not extraordinary. Just the combination of them makes the MK Ultra protocol very inhuman (inducing a permanent mental disease to enslave and control a person). I don't have more info than anybody else, but I don't see any reason to believe it would be impossible, especially when here, we aeady witness the existence and potency of hypnosis, triggers, alternate personalities (like in the Bambi program), and so on.
(21 Feb 2021, 11:51 )Hypno_J Wrote: The reason why we don't have specific details from the scientific society is because scientists working with the military are bound by non-disclosure contracts.
True, but in your MKUltra example the military "exploited" what was aeady known and published by the scientists. And this is how it usually works. The military do not invent, the use what's aeady invented and tweak it to suit their particular purposes. If we go back the the subject (subliminals), the scientist community of the 70'-80' generally dismissed the idea of conveying information via subliminal messages. The big companies followed.
21 Feb 2021, 13:18 (This post was last modified: 21 Feb 2021, 13:46 by Hypno_J.)
(21 Feb 2021, 12:44 )Like Ra Wrote: True, but in your MKUltra example the military "exploited" what was aeady known and published by the scientists. And this is how it usually works. The military do not invent, the use what's aeady invented and tweak it to suit their particular purposes.
I agree that my comment was off topic with regard to subliminal messages. I just wanted to reply about MK Ultra because it interests me a lot. Sorry to intrude and for the off-topic.
About subliminal messages, I won't be very useful here. I believe they work because I have seen reliable people tell their own experience. But that's a very personal belief and there's no proof or argument that I can bring to the conversation.
(21 Feb 2021, 13:18 )Hypno_J Wrote: I'm a bit confused, I don't understand how that is related to my comment.
Mmm.. That was my logical chain of thought:
I said, that in my opinion subliminals do not work, and:
(12 Aug 2020, 10:26 )Like Ra Wrote: That's what I mean - it was proved as not-working by 1980-1990 researches.
Then:
(25 Jan 2021, 17:52 )peterpumm Wrote: Do you think the powers that invest into society wide brainwashing experiments want the public to know that their shit actually works?
(25 Jan 2021, 17:57 )Like Ra Wrote: The scientific society would definitely publish something. And there must be a reason why MKUltra project was cancelled. Because it was not working?
(21 Feb 2021, 11:51 )Hypno_J Wrote: The reason why we don't have specific details from the scientific society is because scientists working with the military are bound by non-disclosure contracts.
(21 Feb 2021, 12:44 )Like Ra Wrote: True, but in your MKUltra example the military "exploited" what was aeady known and published by the scientists. And this is how it usually works. The military do not invent, the use what's aeady invented and tweak it to suit their particular purposes.
So, yes, the whole "chain" was about non-working subliminals. But then it was switched to my objection to the idea, that the military uses scientists for inventing something completely new, which is not known to the general non-military science community.
(21 Feb 2021, 13:18 )Hypno_J Wrote: I just wanted to reply about MK Ultra because it interests me a lot.
(21 Feb 2021, 16:26 )Like Ra Wrote: So, yes, the whole "chain" was about non-working subliminals. But then it was switched to my objection to the idea, that the military uses scientists for inventing something completely new, which is not known to the general non-military science community.
(21 Feb 2021, 13:18 )Hypno_J Wrote: I just wanted to reply about MK Ultra because it interests me a lot.
Subliminal primes in real life situations: a study on the effect of textual subliminal primes presented on computers via the internet
Quote:Abstract: Over the course of time the effectiveness of subliminal messages has been the subject of much controversy. This study investigates whether subliminal messages spread via the internet had an effect on which words participants were likely to choose. 108 Participants were presented with a countdown after which a series of four words was presented from which the participants had to choose one word. During the countdown a subliminal prime was presented in the form of a word present in the fifth series. This process was repeated five times for five different word lengths. The result suggests subliminal priming cannot be used to affect people's choice of words in a real life situation. Keywords: subliminal, messages, persuasion.
Item Type: Essay (Master)
Faculty: BMS: Behavioural, Management and Social Sciences
Subject: 77 psychology
I wonder if the descriptions make the most effects if any 😁 And since the descriptions are vague, your mind can interpret it in different ways. What means... if it works, it's caused by your mind only. And since the description encourages you to listen again and again, the videos get more views, what might be quite beneficial for the author. Yes, I see pam-pam-param - pa-ra-ra-ram - pam-pam-param (in 7/4th) everywhere 😂
I remember the "most dangerous curse" silent subliminal file posted on WMM. The description was long and powerful, there shouldn't be any escape if you listen to it. The file contains 40 min of silence. Literally silence. Just nothing. Flat line. No information besides the description. I wonder if it works 😋
eady documented individually. It's about creating a trauma, to induce a 