Phytoestrogens and magic herbs

[Like Ra]

otoh a fellow Bambi (transgirl) is imploring me (with my consent) to temptations to experiment with estrogen. she scoffs at PM and my attempts to titillate us both by taking it.

Yeah, this is how it's progressing. Step for step, step for step ... 😉 https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...9#pid69569

otoh a fellow Bambi (transgirl) is imploring me (with my consent) to temptations to experiment with estrogen. she scoffs at PM and my attempts to titillate us both by taking it.

Yeah, this is how it's progressing. Step for step, step for step ... 😉 https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...9#pid69569

thats . . . cute and relateable.

but did her tits get bigger between phase 2 and phase 3?

[Like Ra]

“Bust enhancing” herbal products

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0029-7844(03)00362-4

Abstract

“Bust enhancing” herbal products are widely advertised. No clinical trials have been published. These products contain a variety of ingredients, including grains, hops, saw palmetto, dong quai, chaste-tree berry, wild yam, kava, fennel, black cohosh, and fenugreek. Several of these herbs are hormonally active; for example, hops contain 8-prenylnaringenin, a phytoestrogen that is more potent than other dietary phytoestrogens. Many bust-enhancing dietary supplements contain substrates for Fusarium, a fungus that produces zearalenone, a potent estrogen that has been associated with breast enlargement in humans and other species. The use of bust-enhancing products should be discouraged because of lack of evidence for efficacy and long-term safety concerns.

. . .

Could these products be effective?
No clinical trial of a bust-enhancing herbal product has been published. It is unlikely that any of these products, if they contain what their labels say that they contain, would cause breast enlargement. Drugs associated with gynecomastia or mammoplasia include estrogen, protease inhibitors, penicillamine, neuroleptics, and antidepressants (including tricyclics, monoamine oxidase inhibitors, and serotonin reuptake inhibitors).

Strange, Pueraria is not mentioned.

[Like Ra]

Does dong quai have estrogenic effects in postmenopausal women? A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...829700397X

Conclusion(s): Used alone, dong quai does not produce estrogen-like responses in endometrial thickness or in vaginal maturation and was no more helpful than placebo in relieving menopausal symptoms.

Use of dong quai alone can be criticized because
traditional Chinese practitioners never prescribe
dong quai alone. Typically, it is used in conjunction
with four or more other herbs. An herbal mixture,
Angelica paeonia powder (Radix angelicae sinensis,
Radix paeoniae lactiflorae, Rhizoma ligustici, Rhi-
zoma atractylodes, Rhizoma alismatis, Sclerotium
poriae), has been reported to reduce menopausal dis-
turbances, including vasomotor symptoms, by 70%
(3). We tested dong quai alone because most women
in the United States who take it to relieve meno-
pausal symptoms purchase it in over-the-counter
form as a single entity.
We conclude that when dong quai is used alone it
is no more helpful than placebo in relieving meno-
pausal symptoms. Dong quai does not produce dis-
cernible estrogen-like responses in vaginal cells or
in endometrial thickness. Women should be discour-
aged from using this remedy alone to relieve meno-
pausal complaints.

[Like Ra]

Interesting fact. There is no Pueraria Mirifica on amazon.nl, bol.com (NL), and on many other NL herbs shops. The only NL shop, which sells PM is https://kruidenalternatief.nl/product-ca...-mirifica/ (this is where I buy it). Also, there is no PM on amazon.de, amazon.fr, amazon.co.uk.

Any ideas why? It really works? Too potent?

but its on ebay.de ?

but its on ebay.de ?

Yes, also directly from DE & PL sellers.
With Amazon it may be an individual interpretation of the CC mandates/guidelines with medicine/supplements (PayPal's are less strict, though they will also not allow for example poppers, even though legal). I doubt it is a "moral" decision by Amazon, they don't really have any. CC companies don't either, but are more worried about payment challenges etc & are also more in the focus of groups like the ADF[I] for purifying the world by fire in their own image.

[Like Ra]

With Amazon it may be an individual interpretation of the CC mandates/guidelines with medicine/supplements

Mmm.... I bought a bunch of other supplements on Amazon: Reishi, Saw Palmetto, Cordiceps, Lion's Mane, Black Cohosh, Pygeum Africanum, etc... Where is even Glycyrrhiza glabra, which might be not safe (it might seriously reduce serum testosterone), and might be quite dangerous (might cause high blood pressure and cardiac arrhythmia), according to researches and some experiences. But no PM.

but it's on ebay.de ?

But not on ebay.nl. Shipped from China, Thailand, US, a couple of DE or UK locations. Definitely looks "better", than Amazon.

With Amazon it may be an individual interpretation of the CC mandates/guidelines with medicine/supplements

Mmm.... I bought a bunch of other supplements on Amazon: Reishi, Saw Palmetto, Cordiceps, Lion's Mane, Black Cohosh, Pygeum Africanum, etc... Where is even Glycyrrhiza glabra, which might be not safe (it might seriously reduce serum testosterone), and might be quite dangerous (might cause high blood pressure and cardiac arrhythmia), according to researches and some experiences. But no PM. 

I really don't understand it either, as you point out, other products like liquorice (glycyrrhiza glabra) are known to be detrimental to your health. PM is generally considered to be benign to beneficial. 

Amazon does sell very expensive "Optimal Breast Cream .. with Triple Extract Pueraria Mirifica"  promising such wonders as "Extra push-up effect - after the first applications" & "The cream for a perfect breast" (for the left side only Amazons archers amongst us I assume). 

Just guessing: It may be due to EU regulations (or the CC institutes fear of them).  
I checked https://ec.europa.eu/food/food-feed-port...gue/search , and PM is listed as a "Novel Food" (I'm not sure how/if this relates to "supplements"):

"NOVEL FOOD - According to the information available to Member States' competent authorities, this product was not consumed in the EU to a significant degree as a food before 15 May 1997. Therefore, a pre-market authorisation in accordance with Regulation (EU) 2015/2283 is required before it can be placed as food on the EU market."

If you are masochistic (I'm tired & my brain turned fluid and leaked out of my ears after the first couple of paragarphs): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/2283/oj/eng

Liquorice on the other hand is also native to southern Europe, has been used pure, in sweets, as a food spice, in traditional beverages and as a fungicide here for centuries & is not "novel" (nor even listed above). So it can only kill you in a known non novel manner & that's then OK to sell & buy with a CC on amazon 🤷🏽‍♀️

[Like Ra]

Just guessing: It may be due to EU regulations (or the CC institutes fear of them).  
I checked https://ec.europa.eu/food/food-feed-port...gue/search , and PM is listed as a "Novel Food" (I'm not sure how/if this relates to "supplements"):

Interesting thought! But Lion's Mane is also considered "a novel food", while (surprise!) Reishi is not! And Lion's Mane is sold everywhere.

Liquorice

Liquorice root works perfectly fine against dry cough and "cold in general" (the usage is usually not longer than 2 weeks). And liquorice is EXTREMELY popular in NL (though the percentage of the actual liquorice root extract is not that high).