Phytoestrogens and magic herbs

[Like Ra]

. I am guessing you were taking this in conjunction with other helpful herbs.

Very true. I take .. a lot ... 😅

It seems from your post that this product was a bit of a game changer, do you agree?

Yes, especially at high doses 😆

And if it was working well towards your goal

Mmm.. not that I have any goals.. Rather, I'm curious what's going to happen. Experiments on myself.

were there any nipple changes

No

I am sorry if I'm getting too personal with my questions,

That's why we have this forum 😉

I started taking PM again on Friday. 1000mg . I'm taking it AM+PM, but looking at the recommended dosage, I should back that off to just 1/day . a few days in, and I'm noticing a bit more chest sensitivity..

[Like Ra]

a few days in, and I'm noticing a bit more chest sensitivity..

As I said, this stuff is strong. Recently I asked AI to do some researches, then dived into the research papers they cited and I found. Then ordered more herbs 😆

Sooo, I'm playing with Liquorice, Red clover, White peony, Hops, Fenugreek, Green tea, Pueraria mirifica. From what I understand, it's much safer (and even healthier) to focus on estrogens with ERβ affinity (not ERα). There is a convenient table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:A...d_ER%CE%B2

ERα is associated with tissue growth, ERβ with growth inhibition and apoptosis.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4192010/

ERα is present mainly in mammary gland, uterus, ovary (thecal cells), bone, male reproductive organs (testes and epididymis), prostate (stroma), liver, and adipose tissue. By contrast, ERβ is found mainly in the prostate (epithelium), bladder, ovary (granulosa cells), colon, adipose tissue, and immune system. Both subtypes are markedly expressed in the cardiovascular and central nervous systems. There are some common physiological roles for the two ERs, such as in the development and function of the ovaries, and in the protection of the cardiovascular system. The alpha subtype has a more prominent role on the mammary gland and uterus, as well as on the preservation of skeletal homeostasis and the regulation of metabolism. The beta subtype seems to have a more profound effect on the central nervous and immune systems, and it generally counteracts the ERα-promoted cell hyperproliferation in tissues such as breast and uterus.

Estradiol and hormone replacement therapies target both the ERs, but this often leads to an increased risk of breast and endometrial cancers, and thromboembolism. Also, selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) target both receptor subtypes, although they display tissue-selective agonist/antagonist activities through mechanisms distinct from those involving ER subtype-selective binding or activation. An ideal SERMs would possess antagonist activity in the mammary gland and uterus, and agonist activity in other target tissues that benefit from an estrogen-like action, such as the cardiovascular, skeletal, and central nervous systems [4]. Alternatively, subtype-selective ligands could be used to elicit beneficial estrogen-like activities and reduced side effects, based on the different distributions and relative levels of the two ER subtypes in different estrogen target tissues noted above. In this regard, there appears to be particular promise for the use of ERβ-selective agonists.

. . .

Activation of ERβ in early prostate cancer, as well as in benign prostatic hyperplasia, leads to an antiproliferative and pro-apoptotic effect

In short:
- if you want big breasts (and, possibly, bigger prostate), more fat on hips - you need ERα-active phytoestrogens: Pueraria mirifica, Humulus lupulus (Hops)
- if you want a narrower waist (and, possibly, smaller prostate), neuroprotective and antitumoric effects, you need ERβ-active phytoestrogens: Glycine max (soybean), Trifolium pratense (Red clover), Pueraria tuberosa (kudzu)

Strong phytoestrogenic plants are also antiandrogens - the brain does not care if it's a male of female sex hormone, if it feels "enough", it will send the "stop" signal to the source of the sex hormones. Hence, why hormonal monotherapy works (estradiol injections are enough, no antiandrogens needed).

PLANTS WITH PHYTOESTROGENIC ACTIVITY: A REVIEW
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...Y_A_REVIEW

Estrogen Receptors Alpha (ERα) and Beta (ERβ): Subtype-Selective Ligands and Clinical Potential
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4192010/

[Like Ra]

Then. Estrogens and antiandrogens should be taken at the time, when they will be at their maximum right before the daily testosterone production. And testosterone is produced in the morning (according to the circadian rhythms).

This stuff:

https://kruidenalternatief.nl/product-ca...-mirifica/

is strong ... Two weeks ago I had to stop taking it, because the breasts swelling and pain became ... a bit ... too much ... Two weeks later the pain begins to subside, and the erections are back. I wonder if it's just Pueraria and Hops in those 500mg capsules, and not something like ... 17β-estradiol ... 😅

When you say your erections were affected, what was it like exactly? Did they disappear completely, become weaker, or was it more like being unable to get or keep one? Just curious what you mean by “the erections are back.” 😅

[Like Ra]

When you say your erections were affected, what was it like exactly?

At some point I could not keep my erection for longer than 20 seconds (I did not count 😅), but then I think it became better. Possibly it was something in my head...

Theoretically, erections can be affected by phytoestrogens, just like they are affected by estradiol.
Also, erections can be affected by hypno.

So... go figure...

BTW, after a couple of months' pause, I started taking Pueraria again (together with the rest), but at lower frequencies: 400mg every other day, or 2 days 400mg, then 1 day pause, and I feel that "itchiness" and sensitivity in my breasts again. How's that possible? Or is it Red clover with higher affinity than Pueraria, but weaker and with ERβ > ERα. Gemini even says that Red clover should render Pueraria ineffective. Ah, everything is sooo personal...