It’s WAR.... God I hope not.

[Vixien]

Also, after that drone crashed, UA Minister of Defence accuse Nato to not be capable to protect their members. OK, so why then you ask Nato for no-fly zone ?

However, it's a brutal war and any "political" and other pressure to West is possible. During war in my region, we were also asking for no-fly zone , etc... because we were out of weapons. My country become NATO member 2009, 14 years after the war, and after fulfilling very strict criteria.

[Culmor]

Ra: liked because I think you're factually correct, not because I necessarily agree with the hypothesis behind i 😊

[Like Ra]

Just thinking aloud.
Ukraine asks NATO for a no-fly zone that NATO obviously couldn't enforce.
Ukraine then has the perfect opportunity, 'If NATO won't do that for us why should we want to join them?'

OTOH, UA uses the assumption, that RU will not stop at the UA borders with MD, PL, or whatever and continues to conquer the world irrespectively if the country is in NATO or not. Or Putin might press the button. Or Chechen battalions might smash one of the nuclear power stations. Or use Novichok which might be blown with the wind towards the NATO countries. In any of the cases NATO will have to act. So, why not to begin right now?

[Like Ra]

Ra, liked because I think you're correct, not because I agree with you 😊

😂

[Culmor]

Or Putin might press the button.

William Blake's 'Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven' argument?

[Like Ra]

Also, after that drone crashed, UA Minister of Defence accuse Nato to not be capable to protect their members. OK, so why then you ask Nato for no-fly zone ?

Yes, I was about to mention the drone 😬 This is yet another manipulation method, called "devaluation": "You are so useless anyway, but you can/may feel a bit better about yourself if you do this..."

[Like Ra]

William Blake's 'Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven' argument?

Ha, actually, it's the other way around! Putin said (loosely quoting), that if Russians die they will go to heaven, and if Americans die they will go to hell. Very Shahids' like statement. To rephrase, Russians will likely be more convinced to die for an idea, than Americans. "A typical Russian" in Putin's view is less likely prone to analyse "what happens if". Again, propaganda techniques... And own projections.

[Culmor]

No one actually believes in Heaven and Hell though do they?
I don't know anyone who does.
May be some fundamentalist Southern Baptist types?

[Vixien]

No one actually believes in Heaven and Hell though do they?
I don't know anyone who does.

You would be surprised.
As for flat earthers.

[Culmor]

But aren't you in the Benighted States?
😊