It’s WAR.... God I hope not.

Sadly, I fear this scenario is sort of similar to a "Police can not do anything before a murder has been committed - and even then, it's a murder beyond jursidiction" kind of thing.

I think the odds for Ukraine as a country, are so screwed.

Georgi Zhukov.

Who sacrificed millions of Soviet people for pretty much nothing.

A good comprehensive history of Eastern Front WWII is liable to tell you otherwise.

Zhukov was a royal PITA to serve under.

But the aforesaid millions would have been thrown into the furnace by absolutely anybody else prosecuting a major piece of that war for the USSR, no matter how competent they were.

Bottom line is, the Red Army, 24 hours before the kickoff of Barbarossa (June 22), did not have the skills necessary to successfully wage war against a first-rate opponent.

What they had to do, instead, was grow those skills, while fighting a major existential war on their own soil at the same time.  That's expensive, and most of the cost is in lives.

They weren't even on a par with the Wehrmacht by July 1943 (Kursk).  But by that time, the odds were no longer even.  And they could, and did, plan a defensive battle very very well: Zitadelle was aeady operationally bankrupt when Hitler finally turned it off between July 13 and July 17.

It would take another year (Operation Bagration) before the Red Army could demonstrably beat the Wehrmacht at it's own game: combined arms maneuver warfare.

And some idiot (or succession of idiots)

That's the result of total mediocracy, impunity and mandatory selection of idiots (because idiots can be manipulated much easier)

You could be right about that one.  That's certainly what Stalin did, until reality hit him upside the head with a 2x4 in 1941.

But the funny thing is, Gorbachev and the senior people who came up through the Party at around the same time he did were mostly sponsored by another bloodless sociopathic KGB bastard, Yuri Andropov, who turned Stalin's selection criteria upside down.

Andropov selected his proteges for competence.

So it's not that Putin doesn't know how to get this right.  He's seen it done right, himself.

[Like Ra]

But the aforesaid millions would have been thrown into the furnace by absolutely anybody else prosecuting a major piece of that war for the USSR, no matter how competent they were.

I'm talking about bit different things. Just one example, have you heard of this phrase:"We go as if there were no mines"?

That's the result of total mediocracy, impunity and mandatory selection of idiots (because idiots can be manipulated much easier)

I call it "intellectual genocide".

That's certainly what Stalin did

uri Andropov, who turned Stalin's selection criteria upside down.

Another example. Semi-destroyed in 1945 USSR was first in space in 1961. Rich (high oil prices) Russia in 1999-2000 semi-destroyed itself by 2021.

Current reports are that Russia is shelling the escape routes from Mariupol during the 'ceasefire'.

But the aforesaid millions would have been thrown into the furnace by absolutely anybody else prosecuting a major piece of that war for the USSR, no matter how competent they were.

I'm talking about bit different things. Just one example, have you heard of this phrase:"We go as if there were no mines"?

Sure I have.

And that was a Christmas party compared to what the penal battalions went through.

But the logic behind this was exactly the same as the logic behind the human wave attacks the Chinese put in immediately after they intervened in the Korean War.

You must close quickly.  You have do not have the equipment to prepare your way by technical means.  Nor do you have people who could use such equipment, even if you had it.  Nor do you have a force experienced enough to get you where you must go by means of sophisticated tactics.

So you use bodies instead.

Most of them won't survive.  But if you don't, you'll lose, because that's the only tool left in the bag.

Note that the "Banzai" attacks in the Pacific War were a wholly different thing.  Those were direct consequences of organizational collapse in the defending Japanese units.  But the Korean War human wave attacks were put in by officers with working organizations around them, and effective control of the units they employed.

Another thing: the government that directs an army that employs such tactics has to be the sort that was in power in the USSR in 1941-45, and in China in 1951-53.  In other words, a ruthless dictatorship, that will toss lives into the furnace in whatever numbers are necessary to meet it's goals.

[Like Ra]

And that was a Christmas party compared to what the penal battalions went through.

Yes. And starving Leningrad was also a Soviet government choice. Food could be supplied to all citizens, but it was chosen to starve them to death. The party leaders in Leningrad had always luxury food in abundance.

What I mean... Human lives were never appreciated in that part of the world...

[Like Ra]

Current reports are

By the order from Mar 01: to prevent "fake information about Russian losses" Russian soldiers must not carry any identity documents or badges, corpses must be either buried in mass graves or destroyed in place.

Current reports are

By the order from Mar 01: to prevent "fake information about Russian losses" Russian soldiers must not carry any identity documents or badges, corpses must be either buried in mass graves or destroyed in place.

I can imagine that with instructions like that morale will not be very high.
Who wants to fight for rulers who do not even honour the people who gave their life for their country?
How different from the days of Alexander the Great. Soldiers who got over 60 were allowed to retire and get a full talent of gold, an enormous amount for those days, but most did not want to retire. They wanted to continue with Alexander.

[Like Ra]

Who wants to fight

Almost nobody wants to fight. They are forced to take part in the war. They are in the army, and being in the army does not offer many choices: shoot, be shot, surrender, be punished ...

Who wants to fight

Almost nobody wants to fight. They are forced to take part in the war. They are in the army, and being in the army does not offer many choices: shoot, be shot, surrender, be punished ...

Of course, nobody wants to fight and risk their life. But there are differences. When morale is high, people will fight with more confidence. When morale is low, people will throw away their weapons much quicker. Or even wound themselves to make it look like they were shot by the enemy, just to avoid getting shot by the guy behind the lines who is/was there to shoot people who would try to fly the battlefield.