Psychological Types

[Zooy]

So, it's impossible to create a test, which can reliably tell you your type.

That is indeed effectively what I was trying to say.
And probably one of the reasons why psychological conceptions change so often.

[Like Ra]

Oh, an another note. Every type has a "dual" - the ideal partner. E.g. for INTj it's ESFj. "Dualized" (those, who live with their duals) and "non-dualized" types might also differ A LOT. Duals protect the most vulnerable functions, and do not allow to "show off", like during the first introduction, when men usually try to show "their best" (as they think... ha-ha...)....

Dualized people are much closer to their own actual type, they are less "distorted", and they might significantly differ from the "typical type description" you might find on the Internet.

Yeah... paradox ... That's why socionics is called a pseudoscience - there are no reliable tests, the classification process also depends on those who conduct the classification, and the "being classified" might act not from his or her strong functions, because of "distortions", adaptation, etc.

[Lycalopex]

Basically, yeah. My tests usually say INTJ, but I've gotten ISTJ, INFP, and INTP before.

You are definitely not INFP 🤣

The main difference between INTJ and ISTJ is intuitive vs sensory. ISTJ is a dominant type (typical ISTJ is Jason Statham), and INTJ "hates" any pressure from others. OTOH, ISTJ "hates" choices and multiple variants.

INTP is possible. INTPs are "victims", they absolutely need to feel the power of a partner. That, actually, makes them similar to INFP. INTJs are "infantiles".

INTJ and INTP might "look" similar on paper (they are even called "look alike" in socionics). But INTJ is very rigid, with an almost constant, strong, complex system of viewpoints, opinions and beliefs. Usually, INTJ does not even see anything, that does not belong to the system, which is EXTREMELY difficult to change. If INTJ does not believe in "green UFO men", INTJ would not see them even if they are marching around.  But within that system, INTJ is like a dolphin in water - an absolute expert. Most likely, Steve Jobs was an INTJ.

OTOH, INTP is flexible, very critical, almost emotionless, they are very overwhelmed and easily irritated by emotions of others (typical examples: Uma Thurman, Dita von Teese).

Then I'm probably just borderline INTJ vs INTP, and INTJ vs ISTJ. Everything I've read points me more toward INTJ, though there is one source I read where it says an INTJ is more than happy to revise their opinions if facts prove them wrong, which you just said isn't the case. But going by your description alone, then yes I'd say INTJ with some traits of ISTJ and INTP.

[Like Ra]

INTJ is more than happy to revise their opinions if facts prove them wrong, which you just said isn't the case.

Yes, of course, INTJ will revise their opinion if the facts are undisputable. The problem is, for at least the INTJs I know these facts will be gone unnoticed. Because, they are, well, outside the system, outside the perception 😆 So, it should be someone who can "sneak" the facts inside, someone who can show INTJ something new, or point to where INTJ does not look. It is difficult, but possible. INTJ MUST trust that person, otherwise the person will also be ignored forever.

Another thing. There are 16 types. However, there are subtypes! For example, for INTJ, the first two functions are - structural logic and intuition of possibilities.

This introverted logic ( - structure, categorizations, ordering and priorities, logical analysis and distinctions, logical explanations, hierarchy) is what makes INTj rigid and stubborn. This "rigidity" helps to save energy, since INTJs (together with INTPs) have the lowest energy level out of all 16 types. (Interestingly enough, to compensate, their duals have the highest energy level.)

The extroverted intuition () is related to creating or seeing opportunities and possibilities, perception of abstract concepts. It's a very flexible "free-flying" function, ENTPs and ENFPs are known for.

So, in subtypes, the 1st or the 2nd function can be a bit stronger, than "it should be", thus creating more logical or more intuitive subtypes. In subtypes, the 3d and 4th function play also a significant role. E.g. for INTJ (aka "Robespierre" or "Rob"), the vital block is (functions in the vital block are counted clockwise):



The vertical columns define the subtype. So, for the logical subtype, we get - more features (sensation, will, power) from ISTJ (aka "Maxim Gorky" or "Max")

The intuitive subtype of INTJ might get more features (ethics, relationships) from ENFP (aka "Huxley")

Just an interesting difference between INTJ () and ENTP ():

ENTP (I am ENTP, aka "Don Quixote" or "Don") creates multiple systems out of chaos. If ENTP had a ton of puzzles, ENTP would create dozens and dozens of 2D pictures from these puzzles simultaneously, some of them might be incomplete, some of them might be absolutely weird, controversial, contradicting, and unexpected even for the ENTP.

INTJ improves and makes The System more complex and perfect. If INTJ had a ton of puzzles, INTJ would create one perfect 3D object corresponding to The Internal System, but most of the puzzles will be left unused and even unnoticed.

But both "Don" and "Rob" belong to the same group - the 1st quad (there are 4 quads - 4 x 4 = 16) and share the same values.

[Like Ra]

And yes, everything is binary 🤣 Jung used 4 major dichotomies: 2 ** 4 = 16

Extrovert - Introvert
Intuition - Sensation
Logic (thinking) - Ethic (feeling)
Rational (judging) - Irrational (perceiving)

[Lycalopex]

INTJ improves and makes The System more complex and perfect. If INTJ has a ton of puzzles, INTJ will create one perfect 3D object corresponding to The Internal System, but most of the puzzles will be left unused and even unnoticed.

I have a bit of trouble deciphering your post, but if this part essentially means "the INTJ hyperfocuses on perfecting one aspect at the cost of ignoring all other aspects" then it describes me pretty perfectly.

[Like Ra]

"the INTJ hyperfocuses on perfecting one aspect at the cost of ignoring all other aspects"

Interesting reframing, but yes, you can say that. I wouldn't reduce the complexity of INTJ's "System" to "one aspect", though. It's rather 4-dimentional, in comparison to all other's 1-2-3D ones. But it's stable, rigid, powerful, and very rarely changes. It might break, though, but it's like a catastrophy.

Also, I noticed, that lots of INTJs are looking for bimbofication hypno to "stop overanalysing things" and finally being able to relax (they are quite rigid physically as well, that's typical for rational intuitive types, especially the "thinking" ones). Usually, they never role-play, but seriously analyse all aspects of IQ reduction. Very funny! 😉

I have a bit of trouble deciphering your post

I rewrote it several times. But it's difficult to squeeze so much information into a purposely short post. And it's intended to be reread multiple times at different times.

First of all, all those 4-letter acronyms are confusing. That's why in socionics they use easy to remember names of characters or real people with corresponding types. E.g. Napoleon. Look at his portraits, and someone from your friends, relatives, pop-stars will "pop up". Elvis Presley, for example. Michael Buble. Hauser (2cellos). Also, Anouk (Dutch singer). We also had one in the forum, but he loudly slammed the door and sashayed away. Non-dualized Napoleon must be the only King, he has no friends or peers, only servants 😉

[Like Ra]

Speaking of INTJs/"Robespierres" - @princesitanatty, you there? 😉

[Lycalopex]

Also, I noticed, that lots of INTJs are looking for bimbofication hypno to "stop overanalysing things" and finally being able to relax (they are quite rigid physically as well, that's typical for rational intuitive types, especially the "thinking" ones). Usually, they never role-play, but seriously analyse all aspects of IQ reduction. Very funny! 😉

I wouldn't frame it as wanting to stop overanalysing, but I do very much want my brain to shut up, as I think I've mentioned before. While I get a sexual kick out of it, the motivation isn't sexual. People can roleplay for their fantasy, but with this, there's no point to the roleplay.

Might be why Bambi, Mr Daniel, etc never seems to stick for me. They play into that demographic that's just looking for mastur-bait and is thus usually willing to roleplay for the fantasy of it.

[Like Ra]

I wouldn't frame it as wanting to stop overanalysing, but I do very much want my brain to shut up, as I think I've mentioned before.

Yes, you have. Also, we discussed that "stopping the internal dialogue" and "IQ reduction" are two absolutely different things. I learned to deal with the stream of thoughts (a bit, so far) by practising yoga/qigong meditations. Hypnosis induces a trance state with similar "symptoms". And it should not be specifically bimbofication. Any good trance should mute or muffle the chatter.