General TG, TS, TV and sex change thread

[Like Ra]

I think you do not understand the definition of CIS.

Ha! Almost simultaneously!

being a cis man is someone who's inner gender identity conforms to their outer sex.

Yes, you are right, this is also what's written in Wiki. My understanding was indeed different, to reiterate:

- Transgender is the one who is transitioning or has transitioned
- CIS person is the one who is living the life of the same gender as the "assigned sex"

So yes, our definitions are different. So, by calling you a CIS-guy I meant that "you are living a life of a guy, corresponding to your sex".

Yep, misunderstandings...

[Hazel]

I don't think you will really understand if you are a (cis) guy.

Of course not! A CIS guy can never understand another CIS guy!

It's not really polite after I repeatedly asked you not to refer to me as a cis guy, to continue calling me a cis guy...just because I do not have a female body or can't transition. That's what I hate about myself and also that society sees and treats people as who they are on the outside rather than who they really are on the inside. If a woman on this forum replies to you, you would probably never even think to reply back with him, he or guy because that would be rude, disrespectful and plain wrong.

Where did I refer to you in this sentence? 😁 I did not mean you AT ALL! . And I did not mean myself in this phrase 😁 It was a simple egocentric trap you fell in!!! For some reasons, you take personally everything what is written here  - you think that everybody is talking about you, and all I write is only about you, and I'm like a strict parent deny your point of view and object to anything you come up with, so you keep arguing, however you are arguing with yourself! You are fighting with your own desires, wishes, ideals, intentions, you are in a constant internal dialogue, "internal discord", internal dispute, what is fully understandable and normal. However it's always amazing to watch. The most spectacular discussion was between me and @gunz in this thread, which ended up very funny and ridiculous at the same time: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...3#pid40473


Anyway, follow the logic:

-it's not possible for one person to understand another (yes, they can discuss something, they can agree on something, but they will never understand each other, e.g. what the real intentions are, what was actually meant or desired, etc) - I said it here many times, also in conversations with you
- a CIS guy is a person
- hence A CIS guy can never understand another CIS guy

This is a pure mathematical logic, no argumentum ad hominem 😊 Rather a mathematical joke based on the added pun - your mentioning that a CIS guy will definitely not understand 😁

I am not in internal discord over my identity, rather I am in discord that I can't express that identity anywhere. Because most people, including yourself (as you said earlier) are trans-skeptics i.e. people who don't believe that transwomen can actually really be women as well!

[Hazel]

I think you do not understand the definition of CIS.

Ha! Almost simultaneously!

being a cis man is someone who's inner gender identity conforms to their outer sex.

Yes, you are right, this is also what's written in Wiki. My understanding was indeed different, to reiterate:

- Transgender is the one who is transitioning or has transitioned
- CIS person is the one who is living the life of the same gender as the "assigned sex"

So yes, our definitions are different. So, by calling you a CIS-guy I meant that "you are living a life of a guy, corresponding to your sex".

Yep, misunderstandings...

Gender is not a lifestyle. If how I feel inside does not conform to what's on the outside it automatically means I am trans and not cis. Full stop.

[Hazel]

Where do you feel it? What do males do differently, when they close their eyes?

Lol, are you suggesting that the subjective mental experience of women don't exist? Yes Like Ra, we are all men in body, mind and spirit according to you

Again, I asked you a question. I did not state anything, however you "assumed" something you are internally arguing with and assigned it to me (isn't it called projection?). And without answering a question again 😁

See what I mean? I feel myself absolutely sexless, genderless, or generally bodyless.

Then you might want to look into non-binary and agender identities.

Did you read the whole phrase? Did you see "WHEN I CLOSE MY EYES..." ? 😁

The questions you keep asking are your attempts to disprove my identity. People only ask questions when they are unsure of something, but since you keep asking very similar questions means you are really unsure of my identity and thus have an opportunity to challenge it. If that were not the case then we wouldn't be having these lengthy conversations about gender. Just imagine for a moment that I was a cis woman and substitute that thought into our previous responses on this thread...can you imagine how absurd that would be where on the one hand I am trying to prove that I am a "real" woman yet you persistently keep arguing and challenging me with a bunch of logical arguments trying to prove otherwise.

[essanym]

Sorry, this is logically and mathematically wrong:

If transwoman = woman => woman = transwoman. Is you mother a transwoman? Neither is mine, hence the statement woman = transwoman is wrong, hence the original statement transwoman = woman is also wrong.

How is it wrong? Example: All Dutch citizens are humans, but not all humans are Dutch citizens. So why not also, all transwomen are women but not all women are transwomen.

[Hazel]

And without answering a question again

I did answer the question and i'll answer it again to make it more clear for you:

Inside I feel female. It does not matter if my eyes are open or closed, I feel myself to be a woman. 

Now if you find that hard to believe, then please refer to the attachment regarding the blind transwoman you linked a while back on this thread. 

It is possible to feel like the opposite sex despite having a male body. That's part of the spectrum of being transgender.

[Hazel]

the sense of an incongruency of my female gender identity and what I see in the mirror.

I fully understand this, and I know this feeling exactly.  Hence I asked about your feelings when you CLOSE YOUR EYES.
No mirror, no photo, no hands/legs in your field of view.
Just blackness.
Just a black hole.
No visualization.
No past.
No future.
Only now.
Only the sound of the bloodstream in your ears.
Only the pressure of the surface you sit or lie on.
Only rhythmic breathing.
Just blackness.
No memory of anything, while your eyes are closed, no emotions, even the breathing is becoming very subtle and you stop noticing it.
Pure blackness.
Try to feel the spot a couple of inches above your crown, feel it like there is a physical connection to your head.
Move to that point and look down to the ultimate blackness beneath.
Just emptiness.
You look down on your own crown, but it's so dark, that you can't see it, but you know that it's there, but you are above now.
You are hidden, invisible and safe.
And from there, if you watch attentively, you might notice what is looking for you, what is trying to destabilize you, what is trying to steal energy from you, what is constantly ignites the same emotions.
What does it look like?
Does it have a name? Ask it! "What is your name?" "What are you doing to me?"
Thank it for all the lessons, and ask it to give your energy back, take its energy and leave you forever, because you do not need its service and it should proceed with its own progress.
Feel it leaves you, feel how it takes the swirl of words and emotions with it.
Look down.
See how the blackness below relaxes?
Feel the relief.
Feel how much more energy and clarity you have now!
Now go down to you body and open your eyes.
What do you feel?
Do you think there is something else?
Just repeat the procedure again, there might be, indeed, another entity willing to eat you. Who wouldn't?

The mind has many levels. What you are referring to is pure consciousness. At that level are you even human? You see, we cannot perpetually exist in that experience (unless you commit to a monastic lifestyle or become someone like Buddha/Sadguru). We live in the relative world and each have a mind and body with different needs. Let's stay on that level of mind in our discussions please 😊

[Hazel]

And as someone who competes in high level swimming, you cannot even begin to understand how envious I was to watch female athletes from the sidelines while I was stuck with racing the guys.

You can't even imagine how I always envied male swimmers! How perfectly they look, how perfectly they can glide through the water, how sexy their cleanly shaved skin glistens, how tight their swimming attire is. ... I imagine how many girls envy such swimmers!

Yes, that's because you are a guy. I've never meant any man who said they wouldn't want to look like Chris Hemsworth. Just like how most women look up to female celebrities as their inspiration. I group myself with the latter category.

[Hazel]

Ok, but 185 cm is not the same as being 194cm.

Ah guys, you've never been to Holland, have you? 😁 With my 175cm I feel like a 10yo kid among adults! Normal female foot size is around 40-41EU. But... they can't walk in heels 😁

You're 175? Lucky you! 😁

[Hazel]

Like Ra, I have a bigger issue that I want to discuss which really drives me into denial of my trans identity. You see, I know that I am fundamentally female and feminine but the problem is that i am also attracted (sometimes sexually) to external femininity and women. So my issue is that for some reason I cannot reconcile those two in my mind; that is identifying as female and also being attracted to females. I've read that cis lesbians have the same problem sometimes minus the gender feelings because for them they sometimes say that they don't know whether they envy her, want to be her, want to be friends with her or want to be with her. I feel the same way but since I am not a cis female, my sexual feelings towards femininity sometimes cause me to go into denial of who I feel inside as a woman (a non-sexual feeling) and then I start purging my identity and attribute it to some feminization fetish only to regret it a short time later.

Also see this post I wrote yesterday for more detail:

Since I like women and do not like men

For me its more complicated. Sissy hypnos opened me up to liking being with a man. Although in real life almost all men are a turn off. So I am basically exclusively attracted to women although that changes if I imagine myself in the female form (as I should be). Then it feels more natural to be with a guy because I wouldn't really want to be with a woman. Basically the reason I sometimes conflate my gender and sexuality is because I might be a lesbian in denial. I just cannot reconcile being a woman and being with a woman because my mind would just want to be friends with her or envy her beauty. There would just be no spark of attraction because she would be just like me. I've read somewhere that gay people and straight people always have the same orientation despite the gender they identify as. For example, I read that a formerly gay man transitioned to become female and then came out as a lesbian despite having no prior attraction to women. So I guess I will always be drawn to heterosexual attraction and relationships. But I think if I were to ever have the ability to transition in real life, things would get sorted out or I would be at peace with whoever I am attracted to then because I would no longer have conflicting gender identity feelings.