12 Apr 2020, 01:57 (This post was last modified: 12 Apr 2020, 02:01 by Like Ra.)
(08 Apr 2020, 01:08 )princesitanatty Wrote: I do not think that there are "biological and social parts of gender". Each trait is the result of biological and social factors, in a specific way.
There are three scientific parts that affect "gender" (and, possibly, all other traits) - I took them from one of the linked articles:
- biology (genes, prenatal and natal periods, etc)
- society/socialization
- own psychology
Dharmic teachings would add the memory of the previous lives and karmic tasks for the current incarnation.
Esoterics would add egregores, larvae and the soul decision before the incarnation.
(09 Apr 2020, 21:43 )princesitanatty Wrote: "Gender" is a polisemic word.
Yeah, like many. So the context and author's definition are very important.
(09 Apr 2020, 21:43 )princesitanatty Wrote: I mainly use 2 different meanings: gender identity and gender norms
So you divide the term "gender" into "internal" (how the person her/himself feels, whatever it's affected by) and "external" (what the soxiety expects from a particular biological sex), right?
Funny, spiritual paths of spiritual grows (e.g. yoga, dao/tao/do) teach how to unfold and undo these socializations one by one to get to your true self. What a weird world... We are constantly made to learn something, then told to forget it and learn again, and not always on a higher level, not always the correct way and not always the truth. Vicious spirals 😁
(12 Apr 2020, 02:15 )Like Ra Wrote: Funny, spiritual paths of spiritual grows (e.g. yoga, dao/tao/do) teach how to unfold and undo these socializations one by one to get to your true self.
"Deine Zauber bindet wieder was die Mode streng geteild"
(Schiller -> Beethoven) although most people only know the next line....
it it just that I have been listening to a lot of different performances of the 9-th of Beethoven over the past months, ranging from an old Mengelberg recording to more modern ones. Hence this came to mind immediately. It just shows that people have been occupied with this phenomenon of fashion over the ages. Much of what we call feminine or masculine is clearly fashion.
Much of the current discussion goes way over my head with concepts I am unfamiliar with. I just know that if I go out in pantyhose, a skirt and heels, I will be considered a weirdo, unless I make a serious attempt at looking like a woman overal. This I object to, because I am not a woman. I just like the clothes. And society/fashion won't let me, unless my skin is of rinoceros quality.
Of course there are some properties that are 100% feminine, like getting children etc. They are part of the biology. Many things that were considered masculine, are challenged nowadays. The number of female students in the sciences is increasing steadily, and in medicine I see more young female general practitioners than male practitioners. But here we are more interested in the erotic aspects. I think things like libido are also more culturally. In the past women were not really considered seriously in that respect. I once read somewhere the sentence "the discovery of the female orgasm". The number of exclamation marks this needs is infinite. What a pretense!
I think that in the end femininity is defined by biological differences. If a woman walks in a feminine way, it is because her different build makes that more comfortable for her. A man can learn to walk in that way, if he likes to imitate a woman, but as it says: he is imitating a woman.
13 Apr 2020, 22:09 (This post was last modified: 13 Apr 2020, 22:10 by Like Ra.)
(13 Apr 2020, 18:33 )Zooy Wrote: It just shows that people have been occupied with this phenomenon of fashion over the ages.
I've read that "Mode" at that time meant rather habits or customs, than fashion. But, on the other hand, "fashion" is also kind of a custom.
(13 Apr 2020, 18:33 )Zooy Wrote: I think that in the end femininity is defined by biological differences. If a woman walks in a feminine way, it is because her different build makes that more comfortable for her. A man can learn to walk in that way, if he likes to imitate a woman, but as it says: he is imitating a woman.
This is basically what I stated close to the beginning of the thread, but later (with some help from @no smile and @princesitanatty 😉 ) I "added" the social aspect, which is another "chicken-egg" case. The society expects women to look/behave a certain way, then young girls learn to look/behave that way during the socializations. Same for boys, who learn to differentiate between male/female behaviours, which work as attractants or repellents, along with other traits.
But again, I'd like to separate the "biologically driven" femininity aspects first.
(10 Apr 2020, 09:16 )no smile Wrote: Interesting distinction. But I think anyone also identify through the social behaviour that suits one better. So your identity is also shaped by the social norms.
Yes, I agree on that. Our identity is shaped by many factors, including social norms and biological traits.
