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Vacbed for selfbondage
#1
I'm thinking about ordering a vacbed to use for self-bondage. I have done some diy vacbed experiments. Plastic bags at first, which feel better than you might expect, then PVC wich is a lot stronger but also not very flexible. Now I want the latex experience and looking at the costs for the material and the (skilled) work required I decided to buy one as it will be much easier and not much more expensive.

After reading lots of "do not do this, ever" I will say that I have read that I should not attempt to do this. Many have done it anyway, including our own forum member ltxrob. I've read his posts and I hope he shares some thoughts in this one as well.

I'd like to share my thoughts on which vacbed design I think is best suited for self-bondage, both from a practical and safety point of view.


First, the head in or out discussion.

A. Head Out

This appears to be considered the safest design but I don't agree. The idea is simple, your head is outside the vacbed so you won't suffocate. I must point out that the only lethal example I could find quickly was using this design. Lethal because the neck gasket was to small for his neck. In my home made attempts I used the head out design and in retrospect this was not a good idea because I could have rather easily suffered the same faith.

B. Face exposed / nose and mouth exposed

I would think this a much safer option as it has no pressure (apart from the overall vacbed pressure) on the neck, I'm not sure about the seal.

C. Breathing hole

Looks like the most dangerous option. Small hole, easy to miss, nothing to hold it in place. I'd avoid this at all times for self-bondage.

D. Breathing tube

I prefer this. I'm not experienced at all but a tube allows for something to hold on to with your teeth, some length of tube inside the bed allows for some margin. On top of this I would think this also seals very well thus holding the vacuum better, providing a better experience.

E. Other

Others designs include made to measure masks or hoods, various kinds of breathable gags etc. I'm not discussing those as they seem to be all a lot more expensive or suffer the same flaws as discussed. Although I would really like a mouth filling breathable gag...

Next point: the seal.

It's only fun if the vacuum is strong enough and this calls for no leakage. This was easily the most frustrating part in my diy attempts and I hope to leave this all behind me when I buy from a pro. There is some variation here as well:

A. Neck entry

If you disagree with me about the nothing-around-the-neck part above this might be the top solution. A bit harder to get into, stretched clean without wrinkles, no struggling to get the closure vacuum tight. But as I said I don't trust anything that closes around my neck for solo play. I do wonder how easy it is to get the frame constructed in this one.

B. Fold

This method uses a bag with some excess material on one side. You fold or roll this, some manufacturers have some clever designs to help you get it airtight, and tuck it under the bed. This is the cheapest solution and as --forum member-- demonstrated works well. As I understand it, it does take some exercise to get it right and some of the methods, like rolling it on a rod and clamping, might not be possible from within the vacbed. It looks like it's hard to keep the top sheet tight while folding and tucking and this might result in a less restrictive result and wrinkles, which are not aesthetically pleasing. Also note that if you need to get your mouth away from the breathing tube for folding it is a security risk.

C. zip

I think we can agree that a zip has the cleanest result when it's closed. The latex is pulled nicely and uniform and it will have the same result every time you close it. No chance for a bad fold job. I had my doubts on the air tightness of a zipper but there are video's where the vacuum remains even when the vacuum cleaner is turned off (and using a one way valve) so I guess it works fine. Of course you can't close a zipper from within the inside of the vacbed. I don't think any manufacturer will be prepared to place it on the inside for obvious safety or liability reasons but there is a simple solution for this: turn the latex bag inside out. BEWARE: turning the latex inside out also means that nobody from the outside will be able to undo it. In an emergency they will have to cut the latex. So a knife and scissors must be left in sight even if you will never be able to use them. 

Then there is the location of the zipper

I can only think of 3 places where the zip can be placed to be suitable for self-bondage:

1. front or back panel

A zip in the front or back panel will allow for easy entry. It must close from bottom to top so you can have the breathing tube in your mouth when closing the zipper. For aesthetic (and possible comfort) reasons it should be placed a few inches from the side.

2. on the side

Must close from bottom to top for same reason as above. It will look better than a zipper in one of the panels but it will be harder to close as the frame will be in the way.

3. on top

Smaller zipper so a bit cheaper I hope, frame will be in the way but since it's on top you can use both hands to close it without letting go of the breathing tube. Getting in will be a bit more difficult but it will be easy to hold the entry open until you are positioned safely.


Small intermediate conclusion: I have picked a vacbed with top zipper and a breathing tube as the best option for self-bondage, taking safety, practicality and looks into account (in that order).


Additional safety measures.

I hope to get some ideas from you guys or if you see flaws with these we need to address them:

A. Safety pipe

A PVC pipe with holes will be put partially into the vacbed prior to entering. It has holes drilled all over so if the vacuum cleaner engages before you're in position this pipe will prevent it from trapping you as it will always allow air in. This pipe must be at least the same diameter as the vacuum hose. This pipe is the first thing in the bed and will only be pushed out as a last step before closing the last few inches of the zipper.


B. Detailed step by step lists

I've been there before, finally playing out that new scenario you've been thinking about for so long, some last minute challenges to solve, the rush and expectation causing you to not think as clear... I even programmed a timer wrong once, it was only controlling a massager but it could have been a lot more important...

To prevent errors that could have been avoided I will print out very clear and detailed lists of steps I need to perform. This includes the higher level steps for the scenario with check lists, but also a sheet with detailed steps on how to program the timers. Timings are fixed in advance, no "let's make it 15 minutes" when a clear thinking you knows 5 is enough.

C. Use two timers

One timer after another ensures that the vacuum cleaner will turn off even when one timer fails. These will be programmed following the steps from the instructions in point B, which are tested up front. Use digital timers with a battery, they can be programmed without being plugged in so easier to sync them.

D. T-section with ice

I came across this wile searching for vacbed safety. A T-section is placed between the vacbed and the vacuum cleaner, air can flow freely across 2 legs of the T but the other is blocked by ice. If the timers fail to shut of the vacuum then it will allow air in once the ice melts. I'm not very keen on using this as it would require a shop vac that can handle sucking water, it's of not much use if it can't be placed between the vacbed and the one way valve and it also adds yet another step while I want to keep this simple. What do you guys think?

E. Follow procedures

Perhaps the most important one, the rules described here are set in stone. All best practices with the goal of keeping it safe:

-- use the safety pipe, pushing it out is the last step before sealing the latex bag
-- breathing tube in mouth at all times between starting to close and finish opening the zipper
-- decide on all details before getting in, no improvising
-- prepare printed out list of all preparation steps and safety measures and follow it to a T
-- ...

I need to work on making this list short but complete and easy to remember (and it will be printed as well).
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#2
I have a airtight Latex Vacbed with neck gasket and penis opening. I also built a Vacuum Pump with vacuum switch (to adjust the strength of the Vacuum) and a timer controlled Magnetic Valve for release. For a 2nd release i use a frozen tube.
It works very good.

There is the Horror Story from that one guy who died trying to use such a Vacbed for selfbondage, but he made the mistake not to check if he can get enough air. (the neck gasket was to tight) http://kinkengineering.tumblr.com/post/2...2/rip-matt

But i used my Vacbed many times now. Without any problems. But be warned it is still not harmless.
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#3
My Vacbed has the roll up top and I was hoping to just pull it inside folded under the frame.... But unfortunately it's not long enough to stay in place. My securing method ended up being ikea food bag clips to hold the rolled up edge closed. 1 at either end and 1 in the middle. If the excess latex was longer it would have worked just fine.

Be aware of the temperature that your vac gets to. Mine was very warm after only a couple of minutes of sealed sucking.

A correctly sized neck seal is not a problem. Kayakers and other water sports activities have been using latex neck seals for decades without issue. I would much rather mine was a head out bed.
I used a breathe through gag as you have seen, but I also considered one of those anesthetic masks that covers mouth and nose so that the seal to the face was good... Also stops you from breathing out into the Vacbed breaking the seal.

I used a remote switch as I was just after experiencing the vac sensation. This was perfect for my needs but next time I may use a small shield ( like the bottom of a plastic bottle) to allow a bit more finger movement for easier button operation.
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#4
(04 Oct 2016, 21:36 )Vacbedbound Wrote: There is the Horror Story from that one guy who died trying to use such a Vacbed for selfbondage, but he made the mistake not to check if he can get enough air. (the neck gasket was to tight) http://kinkengineering.tumblr.com/post/2...2/rip-matt

He did get enough air:

Quote:The baro receptors in his internal carotid arteries signaled to his body that his blood pressure was dangerously high, and this sent off a vagal response to slow the heart.  Since the signal of high blood pressure could not be relieved, Matt lost consciousness and the vagal response caused his heart to stop completely.


It could have happened to you or me, "I can breath fine, I'm ok" but then he died because arteries got pressed a bit to hard.

(05 Oct 2016, 00:14 )ltxrob Wrote: My Vacbed has the roll up top and I was hoping to just pull it inside folded under the frame.... But unfortunately it's not long enough to stay in place. My securing method ended up being ikea food bag clips to hold the rolled up edge closed. 1 at either end and 1 in the middle. If the excess latex was longer it would have worked just fine.

That's too bad. I'll be opting for a vacbed with a zipper, it is a bit more expensive but I think I'll have a much better seal. It looks also easier to close the zip than to fold the latex right from within the bed and I like it easy Wink

(05 Oct 2016, 00:14 )ltxrob Wrote: Be aware of the temperature that your vac gets to. Mine was very warm after only a couple of minutes of sealed sucking.

I'm getting a vacbed with a one way valve, on the video's it appears to be working well so I plan to keep the vac running for only a minute at a time. When I played with my DIY bed I had it run for a maximum of 5 minutes if I remember correctly and it didn't feel excessively hot so I think it will be ok.

(05 Oct 2016, 00:14 )ltxrob Wrote: A correctly sized neck seal is not a problem. Kayakers and other water sports activities have been using latex neck seals for decades without issue.

I don't know anything about kayaking but if that's true then my fears might not be totally justified. Still don't feel comfortable having it close around my neck, even after having it done before.
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#5
Any Vacbed can have a oneway valve... easy to achieve with some pipe fittings and a rubber ball.
The problem is how will you release it when you want out?

My solution would be to add another T fitting on the other corner with an ice Bung.
Vac on for 90 seconds through the one way valve... sealed, vac off and you are stuck until the ice melts and releases the seal.
Timing on that could be extremely variable though.
Given a single ice cube could be 45 minutes, an ice plug of 40mm diameter and maybe 25-30mm long could take a while before the seal starts to go....90 minutes???
Using reducer pipe fittings would allow it to be a smaller ice core... but I'd say some testing is definitely in order.
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#6
One thing on zips is that airtight ones are obscenely expensive... drysuits etc are about £80 upwards for a new zip fitting.
My whole complete Vacbed was only £110 delivered!!
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#7
(05 Oct 2016, 21:26 )ltxrob Wrote: Any Vacbed can have a oneway valve... easy to achieve with some pipe fittings and a rubber ball.
The problem is how will you release it when you want out?

My solution would be to add another T fitting on the other corner with an ice Bung.
Vac on for 90 seconds through the one way valve... sealed, vac off and you are stuck until the ice melts and releases the seal.
Timing on that could be extremely variable though.
Given a single ice cube could be 45 minutes, an ice plug of 40mm diameter and maybe 25-30mm long could take a while before the seal starts to go....90 minutes???
Using reducer pipe fittings would allow it to be a smaller ice core... but I'd say some testing is definitely in order.

I'm assuming no vacbed is 100% airtight so you'll get some slack eventually. One of the manufacturers websites said that after a few minutes when you have sweat enough it becomes slippery and you'll be able to move your hand towards the breathing tube to let some air in.

I've made an ice lock with some standard pvc tubing, it's not very big but that lasts for hours, I once time it to over 3 hours, 90 minutes is optimistic I guess. Maybe with some testing on amount of water / time in freezer etc but it's not an exact science.

(05 Oct 2016, 21:30 )ltxrob Wrote: One thing on zips is that airtight ones are obscenely expensive... drysuits etc are about £80 upwards for a new zip fitting.
My whole complete Vacbed was only £110 delivered!!

I'm now looking vacbeds with a zip and after comparing lots of manufacturers I've found one where it would be around 220€ delivered for a 90cm wide bed. I'm giving up on larger ones, it goes over 400€ fast Sad

£110 is 124€ approx. Shipping for me is around 20€. Configuring one without a zipper gets the 200€ down to 135€. Zip is expensive indeed...

Ok now I have to decide if I really need a zip, would you think your vacbed would be more convenient if it had a zip? I think I'm willing to pay the extra 75€ for a zip if it makes my life easier.
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#8
The moisture/sweat does indeed build up inside... but even when I was fully slick with the vac off and leaking air I still had 30 sec odd before I could move my arm. I think in a sealed bed you could be waiting a while before that will happen.

Would the bed be more convenient to use with a zip?
Yes it probably would be... is it a deal breaker that I have to spend a minute sealing the flap?? No
If you were having one made you could probably pay a little more to get a bit of extra length on the tube and it would be easy to pull it in and fold it twice under the pipe... sealed.. 30sec tops.
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#9
Ok thanks, I'll let it all sink in for a while and see how much money I can spare and then decide if it is worth getting a zip.
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