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The best way to tie hands behind your back when using a karada
#11
Have to think about that. Quite a question.

Ill have a look at how it will fit / look like. Cant promise anything. I have to get the house cleared of people first anyway. Will probably happen this week on either monday or wednesday I think.
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#12
When i do a karada with a hogtie i just plain old tie my feet to by butt and then handcuff my hands through the ropes higher up this makes it so the strain isn't on your wrists
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#13
(19 Jan 2010, 01:24 )ydal Wrote: When i do a karada with a hogtie i just plain old tie my feet to by butt and then handcuff my hands ...

The idea of connecting cinch rope to the ankles is to cinch the wrist loop with your legs. Your method will indeed put less strain on the wrists, but you use lockable handcuffs and not a piece of rope right?

(19 Jan 2010, 01:24 )ydal Wrote: handcuff my hands through the ropes higher up this makes it so the strain isn't on your wrists
High up your back? Again it will work with handcuffs, but not rope. What kond of handcuffs have you got? Metal ones will definitely put lots of pressure.
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#14
(19 Jan 2010, 02:05 )Like Ra Wrote:
(19 Jan 2010, 01:24 )ydal Wrote: When i do a karada with a hogtie i just plain old tie my feet to by butt and then handcuff my hands ...

The idea of connecting cinch rope to the ankles is to cinch the wrist loop with your legs. Your method will indeed put less strain on the wrists, but you use lockable handcuffs and not a piece of rope right?

(19 Jan 2010, 01:24 )ydal Wrote: handcuff my hands through the ropes higher up this makes it so the strain isn't on your wrists
High up your back? Again it will work with handcuffs, but not rope. What kond of handcuffs have you got? Metal ones will definitely put lots of pressure.

I use handcuffs from dog choker chains either im picturing it wrong or am misscomunicating but as long as i put one layer of anything under the cuffs the marks go away in less than 4 hrs. I may just not strugle as much as some people
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#15
How are you using them? Put one cuff/collar on one arm, another one on the other and padlock them together?
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#16
Here are three suggestions of tight hogtie variations, but I warn you, without a knife it might be impossible to escape variation two and three, and the third variation can be hard to get out even with a knife or scissors. I actually do not recommend to try the third variation alone.

Generally, all three variations make it quite impossible to use a phone or ring the doorbell of your neighbour. It will be quite hard to move around at all. As for tightness, safety and security, I think variation 1 can be quite strict but not exactly secure, therefore quite safe, variation 2 is less restrictive (which is still quite restrictive, since it is a real hogtie) and not so safe, you could get stuck without cutting, and variation 3 can be a bit too secure and therefore quite unsave, while it is probably the strictest method, however, with proper testing, you can find a good compromise between strictness and escapability.

All three variations allow you to fuck your matress or a cushion in the right place. In all three variations, your legs are tied directly to your wrists. I have decades of experience in self-bondage with rope but so far, I could not find a good way to secure my hands on the back while flat on my belly (with rope, that is...).

Variation 1, 3 or 4 m of rope needed, 8 mm is good. This was my very first self-hogtie and I liked it for years.

Tie your legs in any way that you like. Just make sure that you still have 2m of rope left and finish the leg-tie at the ankles. Tie the free end of the rope around your left wrists (rigth is fine too, but the description requires left). Now grab the rope with the left hand and turn it counter-clockwise, creating a small loop, slip it over your right hand, pull tight. Next, grab the rope with your right hand, turn it clockwise to create another small loop that goes over the left hand. Repeat until you are properly hogtied. Getting into the last loop might be difficult and you might have to adjust the rope length in order to get a good result. One remark about the loops (as I can't create a drawing): The free end of the rope should cross the loop on the side that is opposite to your hand. Like that, the loop will be tightened when the rest of the rope is pulled, rather than pulling the loop off your hand. Unless you are using very thin rope, this bondage isn't exactly secure, but it is quite strict and a real hogtie.

Variation 2, around 3 or 4 m of rope needed, 8mm is a good strength, it should be rather soft because there will be strain on your wrists.

Put both ends of the rope together, make one overhand knot using both ends like a single piece of rope. Now you have a ring, which is easier to handle and makes the tie more comfortable. Now tie a slip knot, by making another overhand knot with the knotted end, over the rest of the rope. Hint: If the part coming out of the knot points towards the loop, it will slip easier. Now double this loop and you will have a ring made of four strands of rope. Pull the loop over your hands and pull tight. You can hang the other side over a door handle for this. Depending on the rope, your strength and stability of your wrists, it can be harder or easier, to get out of this. If it is too easy, add more loops. If your plan is to get free by cutting the rope only, you probably need more loops, which automatically makes it more comfortable as well. Once you finished these tests, you can get into the hogtie right away:

Tie your legs right above your feet with the free end of the rope. You should use up as much rope as necessary, to get the loop close enough to your ankles (testing required again here). Make sure you tie off at the front, to keep the knot out of reach of your hands.

Now slip your hands into the loops behind our back and pull tight. You can either slip both hands into the loop from the same side or one from each side. The friction of the rope on the slip knot will make it relatively secure. On top of that, you have to bend your legs and back to release some tension and be able to pull open the loop at all.

In this position, it is not easy to move, so the best way to find your knife is to have it attached to a string that is attached to one of your wrists.

I find this variation nice to some extent, but my wrists are hurting a bit during the next day, this is mainly because it requires a lot of strength to open the loop wide enough to get my hands free.

Variation 3, needs 3 m strong but soft rope or, even better, a belt from a karate suit, because this time the strain is applied to each wrist directly. This variation can be very difficult to escape even with a knife. And when using a knife, you risk injuries because you have to get it between your torso and the belt. Therefore, I seriously recommend you to either never trying this variation alone or at least use safety-scissors that are strong enough to cut the belt. A safety-belt cutter might be too hard to handle here. Read on and you will understand, why.

Tie a slip knot to each end of the belt (or rope, I keep saying "belt" in this description). The loops should be large enough to easily get one hand through. Now sit down and cross your legs, then vertically wrap the belt tightly around the crossing twice or three times - this depends on your anatomy, you will notice in a moment. Now you are not able to get your legs together anymore. Make sure that the remaining ends of the belt have the same length. Now you have to adjust the position of the slip knots, this is simply trial and error. In order to do this, you "simply" get into the hogtie - if you can. If you can't, you need longer ends. If it isn't tight enough, you need shorter ends. Good backup method very recommended!

The getting in: While still sitting, with your crossed legs tied at the ankles, pull one end of the belt accross your left upper leg towards the back, the other one accross the right leg, hold the ends there while bending forward, pull them back as much as you can. As long as you bend forward, the ends will be held between legs and hips/belly, so you can let go now and cross your arms behind your back and slip each hand through the opposite loop and pull tight. If you forgot the cutting device, it is too late to remember now!

Ok, you might think, "this is not a proper hogtie, I am sitting and it isn't that tight, I can even get my hands together and work the loops off with some effort". Ha! Lay down and get onto your belly - not exactly easy with your legs crossed, but you will manage after a while. Like this, the bondage is much stricter and the loops will most probably tighten more around your wrists - which is why I recommend a karate belt, which is much wider than rope and less harmful for your wrists. If you are dexterous, you might be able to fuck your matress in this position. If not, get a cushion underneath your precious parts.

Getting free: This is not easy, unless you can get your hands together. Best get into a sitting position first, this will release your wrists a bit. If you can get your hands together now, you can probably work off one loop and then the other. If not, this is still the better position to use a knife. As a matter of fact, the backs of your hand are pointing to the rope that you need to cut and the rope will be very close to your torso.
A way to bind your hands behind the back in hogtie position - legs assumed to be bound and fixed to a torso/shoulder harness or something alike.

The following preparation is easier when you are sill completely free, just wearing the harness that arms and legs are supposed to be tied to. Karada, breast harness, whatever you like, is suitable as long as there are some horizontal strands of rope slightly underneath your shoulder blades that you can tie ropes to.

Find the strand(s) of rope that you want to tie your wrists to and slide a length of doubled rope through it. Tie the open end of that rope around the other end, creating a slip knot that will be tightened when you pull the other side - the middle of the rope length. Now double, triple or quadruple the loop, in order to create a loop of four, six or eight strands. More loops make it harder to escape. Now you can use an empty coke bottle or something similar to keep the loop open, slide it in, pull tight.

Time to tie the legs and take care of safety measures. When your legs are properly tied and in hogtie position, carefully remove the coke bottle from the loop and open it (not the coke bottle, but the loop!) a bit - wide enough to get both hands in from either side, which might have to be quite wide, depending on your dexterity. Also keep the free end in one hand. Now slide that hand into the loops, but make sure you don't get the free end of the rope through. Use your other hand for help. When the first hand is inside the loop, it should hold the free end of the rope and the free end may not go through the loop. Now slide the other hand in from the other side - this is the typical japanese box-tie position. Move your hands down to pull the loop straight, not exactly tight, but there shouldn't be any lose strands. Now pull the open end of the loop-rope to tighten the loop. You could also fix the end somethere and then slowly move away. While the loop is closing, keep wriggling your hands a bit to make sure, that it is tightening evenly on all strands.

In order to get free, you have to work the loop open. This can take quite a while and depends a lot on rope friction and the numbers of strands in the loop. In the worst case, you will have to cut your legs lose and walk over to a door handle. By using the door handle, you can pull one strand after the other from one hand. Each one will be easier.

As I said in my previous post, I have no good way of securing my arms behind my back in a hogtie position. And this is why: This method is either too strict, which requires a lot of patience or a knife, or too lose. And despite the fact, that the legs are tied to the harness instead of to the wrists, the wrists still have a hard time because the tie has to be quite tight and forcing the loop open is done by your wrists. However, this is worth trying out! You can even enjoy this without tieing your legs, you can even leave out the harness and wrap the remaining rope around your torso, upper arms etc. (which is near to impossible when hogtied).
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#17
(19 Jan 2010, 21:15 )Strappado Wrote: Variation 3, needs 3 m strong but soft rope or, even better, a belt from a karate suit, because this time the strain is applied to each wrist directly. This variation can be very difficult to escape even with a knife. And when using a knife, you risk injuries because you have to get it between your torso and the belt. Therefore, I seriously recommend you to either never trying this variation alone or at least use safety-scissors that are strong enough to cut the belt. A safety-belt cutter might be too hard to handle here. Read on and you will understand, why.

Tie a slip knot to each end of the belt (or rope, I keep saying "belt" in this description). The loops should be large enough to easily get one hand through. Now sit down and cross your legs, then vertically wrap the belt tightly around the crossing twice or three times - this depends on your anatomy, you will notice in a moment. Now you are not able to get your legs together anymore. Make sure that the remaining ends of the belt have the same length. Now you have to adjust the position of the slip knots, this is simply trial and error. In order to do this, you "simply" get into the hogtie - if you can. If you can't, you need longer ends. If it isn't tight enough, you need shorter ends. Good backup method very recommended!

The getting in: While still sitting, with your crossed legs tied at the ankles, pull one end of the belt accross your left upper leg towards the back, the other one accross the right leg, hold the ends there while bending forward, pull them back as much as you can. As long as you bend forward, the ends will be held between legs and hips/belly, so you can let go now and cross your arms behind your back and slip each hand through the opposite loop and pull tight. If you forgot the cutting device, it is too late to remember now!

Ok, you might think, "this is not a proper hogtie, I am sitting and it isn't that tight, I can even get my hands together and work the loops off with some effort". Ha! Lay down and get onto your belly - not exactly easy with your legs crossed, but you will manage after a while. Like this, the bondage is much stricter and the loops will most probably tighten more around your wrists - which is why I recommend a karate belt, which is much wider than rope and less harmful for your wrists. If you are dexterous, you might be able to fuck your matress in this position. If not, get a cushion underneath your precious parts.

Thank you for posting this.
It tried this out for a bit. I used a bicycle tube (inner tire) for that. It was stretchy (and it was difficult to make slip knots of), but did not chafe a bit. For additional support for my ankles and legs, I wore sweatpants (normally) and inserted my ankles to the exits of the opposing legs of the pants.
Yes, this position works quite well. However, I found it easier to escape than to get into. Indeed, it is considerably tighter once you are lying belly-down, but maybe I just have too much experience of being in this exact position* and I found it too easy to get back to a sitting position, somewhat destroying the fun...

*) Usually I just push my knees into the legs of some pants, tighten the waistband and use a separate scheme for tying my arms behind my back.

Speaking of means of tying the arms behind the back, one particularly interesting method I devised once was, when I bought a women's nightgown, which was basically a tight t-shirt that is tall enough to reach the knees when standing.
To get the basic idea, try this if you are wearing a shirt: don the shirt normally. Now pull the bottom edge of the shirt up, over your arms, so that the shirt's bottom forms a "pool" around your arms (and indeed over your torso), in which your arms are resting. You can pull the shirt's edge as high as you want. The room for your arms grows smaller, the higher you pull it. Now, if only the shirt was long enough, you could use a belt, or other schemes, to tighten the shirt's edge gently around your neck, so that your arms have minimal room to move. Because there is still a considerable distance between the edges of your shoulders and your neck, it does not need to constrict your neck at all in order to be effective at binding your arms (so it does not become a factor for autoerotic asphyxiation). Now, once you've got your arms in such a tight predicament, you can still exert yourself and struggle to push the arms to your backside. It is difficult, but possible. However, getting them back to the front is an order of magnitude more difficult. If you still find it too easy, wear mittens and high-friction clothes under the gown... (A children's pantyhose doubles as good mittens for both hands at the same time, as long as the waist opening can be stretched larger or same size as your shoulder width.)
Now you have the basic idea. I simply permanently tied the bottom of the gown (using a cable tie, though sewing would make a much better and even result) and figured out how to don it (it's not trivial, but you can figure it out if you think how you undress it).
When choosing the right size for the garment, the most important part is that the armpit seam circumference should as small as possible (but large enough for it to fit on you, of course) and not very stretchy. If it is too large, escaping will be too easy.
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#18
Joyl27, your idea of using a nightgown sounds interesting, except that it is probably another method of making your arms sore 😉 I tried a slightly different way, using a hobble skirt with a zipper that I used upside down, not over my legs but over my torso and over the head. But it was quite easy to get out as I figured quickly. However, it was a leather skirt, and this bondage was quite a sensual experience (I like the smell of leather).

Here is one more method of tieing your hands behind the back quite securely with rope. I discovered this method because I kept looking for a good method to tie my hands crossed behind the back and got better and better over the years:

Make a few loops in the center of a 5m rope, wide enough to get both hands through. Slip one hand through, grab the ends of the rope and - behind your back, slip the other hand through from the other side. Take one end of the rope into each hand and pull tight. Wiggle a bit and pull tighter again, until you are sure that you can't pull out a hand without losening the loops. Now wrap the ends once around both wrists, in opposite direction, until you rund out of rope. Finish off with a double overhand knot. By the way, by rotating and moving your wrists, you can get the knot out of reach. Of course you get it back the same way, but it delays the release.

Use with a Karada or other harness: You can "weave in" the first loops or the later wrapping or even both.

This method is not exactly secure with a "reasonably thick" rope of 8mm or more: It is almost impossible to keep the first overhand knot tight while doing the second one and the slack resulting from this might be enough, to get one hand out with some effort. If not, you can still use a door handle to pull off one loop and then get free. Most probably, you can simply undo the knots.

Now the improvements to the above (each step is a prerequisite to the next one):

When doing the second overhand knot, try to keep the first one as tight as possible (of course) until the second one is almost closed. Then pull sharply to finish off. The faster and stronger, the better. This is the best way to get a tight knot. Of course you have to pull both strands simultaneously or it will move the first knot and make the tie loser. When in a hog-tie, and if you can't undo this knot, you are very secure now, because you can't possibly get to a door handle.

You can use thinn and soft rope, best with high friction to itself. I bought some cheap 5mm "bondage rope" which seems perfect. When pulling the knots tight properly, I can't undo them while tied up, it even takes a while after I got free by help of a door handle. Furthermore, the first overhand knot sticks to the loops and the final bondage is tighter than with thicker rope, so I definitely need a door handle. Of course, it needs a few more loops around the wrists to be comfortable.

If you want to make it even more secure, you will have to pay for your freedom by shredding the rope: Instead of finishing only the last wrap, tie off with a double overhand knot after each wrap around your wrists. Each wrap has to be quite tight of course. And you should tie each knot in a slightly different position or you will end up with a painful stack of knots. The door-handle release is now obsolete, because you can't even get a single loop off. Even if only the last knot is undoable, you need a knife to get free. And believe me, I really tried hard, even used a fork, trying to poke the knot open, until I finally used the knife, I was not happy having to cut the rope, and I had to cut every single loop, except for the very first ones which were not secured by knots.

I am not exactly sure, how much practice this needs. I am doing rope self-bondage for years and so far every single method I developed was escapable after a while. It seems that the hands get more clever with each escape.

This method doesn't seem to work with parallel hands, because it is quite difficult to make it tight enough. But there is a workaround: After tieing your hands very losely, wrap the ends of the rope around the ties between your wrists, tighten after each wrap, then finish with a double overhand knot. The rope around your wrists should be so lose, that it only keeps you secure when you finish the tie. Undoing a knot between your wrists or between your arms can be quite difficult, so you don't even need to do it as tight as on crossed wrists. However, better do it between the arms, because there it is less painful than between the wrists. By the way, there is no need to tie a knot after each loop of the wrists, since they are all secured by the chinch loops later.

I am not doing either of these refined methods at the moment because I don't want to run out of rope.
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