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+--- Thread: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? (/Thread-Does-free-will-exist-Do-we-have-a-choice)
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Like Ra - 10 Dec 2019
Hence the interest in bondage, self-bondage, hypnosis, femdom or maledom. We want to to trade our freedom for freedom of having no choices, for freedom of having no free will.
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Strappado - 12 Dec 2019
(10 Dec 2019, 23:23 )Like Ra Wrote: I think that the amount of choices is inversely related to the freedom. The more freedom, the less wishes. The absolute freedom leads to having zero wishes, zero desires, hence zero choices.
The more we bound to the society, the less freedom we have. We are bound to duties, bound to necessities, bound to debts, bound to desires, bound to relationships, bound to our bodies, bound to our abilities. Too many things are happening simultaneously, too many priorities we have to bounce around, too many choices to make to buy ourself some "freedom". And this is not something we would accept willingly, should we have a free will.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as "free choice", it's an oxymoron. It's either "free" or "choice".
Actually, I think, adapting to the society rules makes life simple, and that's, why we do it. On the other hand, we cross red traffic lights and do other wrong things constantly, because we know, that the consequences are acceptable (or just out of plain stupidity). So, who tells us, where to stop, if not our own ego?
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Like Ra - 13 Dec 2019
(12 Dec 2019, 23:59 )Strappado Wrote: who tells usUsually our desires. We live in the world of desires. And desires are more than often dictated not by our choice. E.g. the example from https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread-General-hypnosis-discussion?pid=30393#pid30393
The freedom means not being able to choose between desires, but being free from owning by desires.
(12 Dec 2019, 23:59 )Strappado Wrote: who tells us, where to stopThe fear of being punished.
Pleasure and pain. We pursue desires in order to get pleasure, sometimes at the risk of being punished.
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Like Ra - 13 Dec 2019
(10 Dec 2019, 23:47 )Like Ra Wrote: Hence the interest in bondage, self-bondage, hypnosis, femdom or maledom. We want to to trade our freedom for freedom of having no choices, for freedom of having no free will.... and usually to fulfil our desires, while moving the responsibilities to another person. Pleasure with hopefully no guilt, pleasure with no apparent punishment.
"I'm masturbating in womens clothes, because of the hypno file, which I bought and listened to because I wanted to masturbate in womens clothes"
"I'm bound&gagged&plugged, because that woman bound&gagged&plugged me! I paid this woman. because I wanted to be bound&gagged&plugged."
😁
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Like Ra - 14 May 2020
Interesting. Recently I stumbled at Sadhguru's definition of the freedom, which can be loosely quoted as: the freedom is when we joyfully do what we need to do. This definition quite closely corresponds to what I wrote earlier:
(10 Dec 2019, 23:23 )Like Ra Wrote: I think that the amount of choices is inversely related to the freedom. The more freedom, the less wishes. The absolute freedom leads to having zero wishes, zero desires, hence zero choices.
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Bambislave - 14 May 2020
Could hypnosis bend someone's free will and make the listener do stuff they would never do in their standard mindset?
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Like Ra - 14 May 2020
(14 May 2020, 15:02 )Bambislave Wrote: Could hypnosis bend someone's free will and make the listener do stuff they would never do in their standard mindset?Hypnosis can make one reconsider the wishes. E.g. by starting far and then slowly add subtle suggestions leading into a particular direction. Think of, for example, priming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Zooy - 15 May 2020
(14 May 2020, 01:49 )Like Ra Wrote: Interesting. Recently I stumbled at Sadhguru's definition of the freedom, which can be loosely quoted as: the freedom is when we joyfully do what we need to do. This definition quite closely corresponds to what I wrote earlier:
(10 Dec 2019, 23:23 )Like Ra Wrote: I think that the amount of choices is inversely related to the freedom. The more freedom, the less wishes. The absolute freedom leads to having zero wishes, zero desires, hence zero choices.
This is completely opposite to what happens in strategic games like chess and go. There, part of higher strategy is to leave your opponent few choices and maximise your own. There is even a word for this concept in the game of go: "yosu miru", which is a way of forcing your opponent to fix their strategy, while you keep your options open. I would not say that an opponent with hardly any choices has more freedom.
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Like Ra - 15 May 2020
If "The Life" leaves you with "no choice" possibly "It" wants to tell you something. You might have missed the early warnings, when you had more choices available. Think of a road and road signs. At the beginning the signs are very subtle and gentle, like "Alternative route in 10km". The next sign might be "Follow this route ...". Then "Road closure in 5km". Then "Go back". Then "STOP".
Then ... the road ends up in an unfinished bridge. Will you stop? Can you brake in time? Or .... is your speed high enough to jump to the other side of the canyon? Or ... can you fly? How many choices do you have?
RE: Does free will exist? Do we have a choice? - Zooy - 15 May 2020
(15 May 2020, 17:41 )Like Ra Wrote: If "The Life" leaves you with "no choice" possibly "It" wants to tell you something. You might have missed the early warnings, when you had more choices available. Think of a road and road signs. At the beginning the signs are very subtle and gentle, like "Alternative route in 10km". The next sign might be "Follow this route ...". Then "Road closure in 5km". Then "Go back". Then "STOP".
Then ... the road ends up in an unfinished bridge. Will you stop? Can you brake in time? Or .... is your speed high enough to jump to the other side of the canyon? Or ... can you fly? How many choices do you have?
Part of freedom is that you are free to be stupid. Hence you are free to try the flying option.
Or, as they say, "as soon as you think you made something fool proof, somebody invents a better fool".
We do not understand enough of quantum mechanics to be able to say whether things are deterministic. Einstein had problems with this: "I do not believe that God plays dice with the universe". But in the end it was not his version of quantum mechanics that won the day. As we understand things now, in quantum mechanics we can only predict probabilities. Even a quantum computer is not exact.