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+--- Thread: Femininity (/Thread-Femininity)
RE: Femininity - princesitanatty - 08 Apr 2020
(06 Apr 2020, 11:24 )Like Ra Wrote:If your point is that you can convert a gradual spectrum into a dichotomical partition, I agree that you can. But I do not adopt such model. It would require to choose an arbitrary threshold, and I reject making such choice. So I adopt a gradual model, instead of a dichotomical model.(06 Apr 2020, 05:20 )princesitanatty Wrote: If it is a graduality, it is not a dichotomy. Also, you cannot consider the zero point in either of the two sets.Yes, since zero is neither positive no negative, the correct way is:
Negative -3 -2 -1 | +1 +2 +3 Non-negative
Following the definition:
Quote:A dichotomy is a partition of a whole (or a set) into two parts (subsets). In other words, this couple of parts must be
jointly exhaustive: everything must belong to one part or the other, and
mutually exclusive: nothing can belong simultaneously to both parts.
It does not matter how big or small the numbers are. if it's -99999999 ot -1e-999999999 both are still negative,
Same for the gender. As long as it can be put into one of the two buckets only (regardless the value) it is a dichotomy.
RE: Femininity - princesitanatty - 08 Apr 2020
no smile Wrote:Your brain is a biological structure that changes every day. Capitalism is a social structure that has been hegemonic for centuries. My point is that the mutability or stability is different for different biological and social structures.princesitanatty Wrote:I disagree with the common view that gender is entirely a social construction. I think it has both biological and psychosocial components. I also disagree with the common view that social factors are always less stable than biological factors: it depends on the factor.
Well, there are far less biological factor changing in a matter of years than social factor.
The question is, if sex=biological_differences and gender=biological_differences + social_differences, then, how would you define the social_differences? And is feminity/masculinity still both sex and gender?
And here comes the 1000$ dollars question, what part of gender is not a social construct and why?
I do not think that there are "biological and social parts of gender". Each trait is the result of biological and social factors, in a specific way.
RE: Femininity - Like Ra - 08 Apr 2020
(08 Apr 2020, 00:47 )princesitanatty Wrote: t would require to choose an arbitrary threshold, and I reject making such choice.It depends on the criteria and simplicity of the model or scale. Negative/non-negative - an absolutely clear and simple criterion - the sign!
In the gender model it's a bunch of gradual scales, and the total weight distribution give you that "sign". Whether the threshold is arbitrary or not in this case, I can't say, I did not read the explanations.
But yes, I think that some thresholds are simply agreed upon: "let's call ABC if 1,2, and 3.". Such agreements can change with time, for example, when additional dichotomies/scales are discovered.
About your choice - of course you do not have to make it. But what if there are a
eady agreed upon and well-documented criteria?
RE: Femininity - Like Ra - 08 Apr 2020
(08 Apr 2020, 01:08 )princesitanatty Wrote: 1- I do not think that there are "biological and social parts of gender".
2- Each trait is the result of biological and social factors.
Could you please explain? I see that 1 and 2 contradict each other.
RE: Femininity - no smile - 08 Apr 2020
(08 Apr 2020, 01:08 )princesitanatty Wrote: Your brain is a biological structure that has changes every day. Capitalism is a social structure that has been hegemonic for centuries.I would rather say mariage which is far older than capitalism, and because this last one as more evolved over time and changes after each crash or redefinition (like the Neo-capitalism on the 80's and the regulation after the sub-prime crisis).
But that's good point. I did not think about the brain (or the biotope).
RE: Femininity - no smile - 08 Apr 2020
(08 Apr 2020, 01:08 )princesitanatty Wrote: I do not think that there are "biological and social parts of gender". Each trait is the result of biological and social factors, in a specific way.So you think gender is social but that part of it is biological influenced if I got you right this time?
There is indeed hormonal and biotopical influence but I would probably categorise them in sex differences. And the trait build over them are gender differences.
RE: Femininity - princesitanatty - 09 Apr 2020
Like Ra Wrote:Agreements and disagreements are also distributed in curves of probability that are relative to individuals and groups. We do not have a sign criterion here, we have a curve of probability for each trait.princesitanatty Wrote:It would require to choose an arbitrary threshold, and I reject making such choice.It depends on the criteria and simplicity of the model or scale. Negative/non-negative - an absolutely clear and simple criterion - the sign!
In the gender model it's a bunch of gradual scales, and the total weight distribution gives you that "sign". Whether the threshold is arbitrary or not in this case, I can't say, I did not read the explanations.
But yes, I think that some thresholds are simply agreed upon: "let's call ABC if 1,2, and 3.". Such agreements can change with time, for example, when additional dichotomies/scales are discovered.
About your choice - of course you do not have to make it. But what if there are a
RE: Femininity - princesitanatty - 09 Apr 2020
Like Ra Wrote:"Gender" is a polisemic word. I mainly use 2 different meanings: gender identity and gender norms (including gender roles and gender display). Gender identity is how a person identifies and is identified by others using sex-related categories, gender norms is how people think people should behave according to their assigned sex-related categories. Sex-related categories are assigned using sex-related traits. Those traits have biological and social causes that are specific for each trait.princesitanatty Wrote:1- I do not think that there are "biological and social parts of gender".
2- Each trait is the result of biological and social factors.
Could you please explain? I see that 1 and 2 contradict each other.
RE: Femininity - princesitanatty - 09 Apr 2020
no smile Wrote:See my reply to Like Ra.princesitanatty Wrote:I do not think that there are "biological and social parts of gender". Each trait is the result of biological and social factors, in a specific way.So you think gender is social but that part of it is biological influenced if I got you right this time?
There is indeed hormonal and biotopical influence but I would probably categorise them in sex differences. And the trait build over them are gender differences.
RE: Femininity - no smile - 10 Apr 2020
Interesting distinction. But I think anyone also identify through the social behaviour that suits one better. So your identity is also shaped by the social norms.