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+--- Thread: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends (/Thread-Tulpas-Alternative-Personalties-Alter-Egos-DID-alters-Imaginary-Friends)
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - Like Ra - 18 Aug 2023
(18 Aug 2023, 08:53 )Lycalopex Wrote: I really don't talk about this very much but I have a tulpa, yeah. Kind of happened by accident during a very stressful period of my life, but he's more or less stuck around.Tulpa or alter? A tulpa is something you create consciously by yourself, an alter is what you get "automatically" = DID. (@CollectiveThought, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Anyway, any more details? Can he front? Do you talk to each other?
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - CollectiveThought - 18 Aug 2023
(18 Aug 2023, 15:03 )Like Ra Wrote: Tulpa or alter? A tulpa is something you create consciously by yourself, an alter is what you get "automatically" = DID. (@CollectiveThought, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Yes...and no. š Generally speaking, alters do tend to automatically form in response to new trauma, especially initially, but some people with DID do learn to consciously create new alters. In fact, that's exactly what I did with my long-term co-hostāI intentionally created her to replace me because I couldn't deal with life anymore. In her case, she's considered an alter because I have DID, whereas for someone else who is otherwise mentally healthy she would be considered a tulpa.
I'm not saying it's the case here, but it's at least possible that a person with a tulpa may actually have dissociation (a broader group than just DID), and that that tulpa would be an alter according to current psychological science. And I want to note here that I am also including single-episode PTSD with dissociation here, which can cause a split between an apparently normal part who deals with day to day stuff and an emotional part who holds onto the "bad memories"*, especially because of the mention of the tulpa being around since a very stressful period.
This leads to new terminology like calling people who experience plurality "endogenic systems" if there is no trauma behind the creation of their plurality and "traumagenic systems" if there was trauma involved. Also, I should point out thatĀ alter is really a term used by psychology in reference to a disorder, while tulpa is not really associated with psychology in any meaningful way yet, and is a more casual term with a longer history behind it. Also, anger gets involved sometimes, so in general you would want to avoid calling your headmate(s) "alter(s)" unless you've been diagnosed with something because people who've been through a lot of bad stuff feel like you are somehow trying to minimize what they went through in the unwilling creation of their headmate(s). The term tulpa has its own cultural baggage, but is much less likely to anger someone if you use that term, which is why a lot of plural systems avoid using the term alter and use the term tulpa instead. Note: If you are a non-traumagenic system, pleaseĀ feel free to correct anything I've said here; I'm still pretty new at trying to understand other plural experiences.
This is splitting an awful lot of hairs over definitions and emotions, though. As always, humans want neat labels and categories to put things in (because our brains are lazy and want to use cheap heuristics wherever possible) and the universe usually refuses to cooperate.
And then to muddy the waters even more, I want to bring this back to plural experiences and talk aboutĀ a model called Internal Family Systems (IFS treatment is used for everything from anxiety or eating disorders through PTSD and dissociative disorders and is a popular method of treatment). IFS is based on the idea that we all have different parts that need to work together like a family for mental health. I was recently starting to read a book (No Bad Parts) by the same PhD who developed the IFS model. My therapist wants to try a modified IFS treatment on me, especially because I have been unknowingly using a lot of IFS-style skills to try to help myself since I learned I had DID. In this book, Dr. Schwartz's descriptions of talking to parts sounded an awful lot like talking with alters or tulpas, which I found quite interesting. In fact, it's his contention that DID alters are just "more polarized and disconnected from the others [ed: in comparison to the parts found in those without DID]."
Richard C. Schwartz, PhDāNo Bad Parts Wrote:In other words, all of us are born with many sub-minds that are constantly interacting inside of us. This is in general what we call thinking, because the parts are talking to each other and to you constantly about things you have to do or debating the best course of action, and so on. Remembering a time when you faced a dilemma, itās likely you heard one part saying, āGo for it!ā and another saying, āDonāt you dare!ā Because we just consider that to be a matter of having conflicted thoughts, we donāt pay attention to the inner players behind the debate. IFS helps you not only start to pay attention to them, but also become the active internal leader that your system of parts needs.
While it may sound creepy or crazy at first to think of yourself as a multiple personality, I hope to convince you that itās actually quite empowering. Itās only disturbing because multiplicity has been pathologized in our culture. A person with separate autonomous personalities is viewed as sick or damaged, and the existence of their alters is considered simply the product of traumaāthe fragmentation of their previously unitary mind. From the mono-mind point of view, our natural condition is a unitary mind. Unless, of course, trauma comes along and shatters it into pieces, like shards of a vase.
The mono-mind paradigm has caused us to fear our parts and view them as pathological. In our attempts to control what we consider to be disturbing thoughts and emotions, we just end up fighting, ignoring, disciplining, hiding, or feeling ashamed of those impulses that keep us from doing what we want to do in our lives. And then we shame ourselves for not being able to control them. In other words, we hate what gets in our way.
Sadly, Dr. Schwartz never directly discusses tulpas in this book.
* According to the theory of Structural Dissociation, which is the current basis of a lot of theory around the formation of DID, OSDD, and PTSD with dissociation.
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - Like Ra - 19 Aug 2023
(18 Aug 2023, 23:50 )CollectiveThought Wrote: Yes...and no. šI love it! š
(18 Aug 2023, 23:50 )CollectiveThought Wrote: headmateI really like this word/definition!
(18 Aug 2023, 23:50 )CollectiveThought Wrote: This is splitting an awful lot of hairs over definitionsIsn't it something what biology and geology are doing 80% of the time? š¤£
Science does not exist without classification, and each and every classification is wrong. Including "bits" (electronic-wise).
(18 Aug 2023, 23:50 )CollectiveThought Wrote: As always, humans want neat labels and categories to put things in (because our brains are lazy and want to use cheap heuristics wherever possible) and the universe usually refuses to cooperate.Exactly! Moderation is a pain - you always have to decide which post to move to which thread. š
(18 Aug 2023, 23:50 )CollectiveThought Wrote: In other words, all of us are born with many sub-minds that are constantly interacting inside of us.
That kinda answers my question...
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - Lycalopex - 21 Aug 2023
(18 Aug 2023, 15:03 )Like Ra Wrote:(18 Aug 2023, 08:53 )Lycalopex Wrote: I really don't talk about this very much but I have a tulpa, yeah. Kind of happened by accident during a very stressful period of my life, but he's more or less stuck around.Tulpa or alter? A tulpa is something you create consciously by yourself, an alter is what you get "automatically" = DID. (@CollectiveThought, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Anyway, any more details? Can he front? Do you talk to each other?
Not an alter, a tulpa, yeah. He kind of solidified after effort from me, before then he was more of a faint presence helping keep me coolheaded.
We talk, yes. Most of the time he's in the background letting me go about my life, but he pipes up with a comment every now and then or makes his opinion clear when I'm doing something dumb. He can front, but prefers me to relay things second-hand when it happens online.
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - ikani - 27 Jun 2024
Two things that were both in this thread:
1) No, LLMs are not conscious and our brains are not as "simple" as a neural net. And actually there was results from a recent study (sorry, I lost the link for it) that basically confirmed our brains are using quantum effects. Really interesting stuff! And demonstrating that there's a lot more going on there.
2) Yup, I have an alter as well! It's the usual, formed during some childhood trauma, though didn't manifest until last year, when I had a strong emotional reaction to finding out several friends had been keeping a secret from me. (We worked it out, it was NDA stuff.) but the next morning I woke up still "me" but someone else. It was really an interesting sensation. My partner has had DID for a while, so I was a
eady pretty informed on things, and since then we've settled into a symbiotic relationship. She does front occasionally, though rarely for more than an hour. We're what's called a median system, so the edges between "me" and "her" are sometimes blurry. We've also done co-fronting a few times, though that's harder to maintain. Interestingly, our heavy use of social VR has helped to give a space where both of us can "exist" comfortably. For anyone else with DID, I highly recommend it. š
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - jadefortyfour - 27 Jun 2024
(18 Aug 2023, 23:50 )CollectiveThought Wrote: Sadly, Dr. Schwartz never directly discusses tulpas in this book.
We mentioned some time back about taking Bambi to a spiritual retreat to see how she liked playing with others on the esoteric philosophy group we've been part of most of our life. Our expectation was that she would hide and there would be lots of shame around the event.
This turned out not to be the case. The majority of the other participants gathering are mental health professionals, one is an ex-priest but all have had experience in being members of one spiritual cult or another.
They were all working with IFS when we arrived after a10 year hiatus of meeting directly with our group.
IFS (imo) is directly derivative of an ancient esoteric system of thought that has traditionally only been transmitted orally (e,g, ashrams, monasteries) although the ideas sometimes do surface in general (popular) conscious in times of great peril. Those wishing to undertake an understanding of IFS in its 'original' context (everything is derivative) could look into "In Search of the Miraculous" by. P D. Ouspensky for the enfolding cosmology around the IFS paradigm and follows that up with Dr. Maurice Nicoll's "Psychological Commentaries on the Teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky" there is no finer publication on the planet (imo) in terms of a complete unification of science, religion, psychology and Western creation myth most of have been socialized by if we have lived in a social culture influenced by Abrahamic religious thought.
In short IFS is a subset of a larger ancient philosophy with roots "before recorded history".
Bambi was quite apprehensive going to that 4 day retreat but expressed herself and her unique take on existence quite fully during those 4 days.
FYI - we are non-binary (and transfeminine) and don't dress, embrace or present a bimbo mentality (as other parts of 'us' need their views respected) while still considering the Bambi personality an integral part of the collective persona occupying this body. So, in a way, our using the plural form 'we' instead of 'I' in our posts here on Likera can be viewed as being from someone who's practiced an expanded form of IFS for four decades.
Folks struggling with "which identity is Me" would benefit from a deeper understanding of this psychological approach when feeling adrift or without some sort of 'mooring' for their social interactions and self-image.
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - Like Ra - 30 Jun 2024
(27 Jun 2024, 07:15 )ikani Wrote: And actually there was results from a recent study (sorry, I lost the link for it) that basically confirmed our brains are using quantum effects.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind ? š
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - brandynette - 18 Jul 2024
Galactic Eldritch Terror Sex Goddess Brandynette?Ā
I wish.Ā
i sometimes wonder what sort of nondimensional being controls my actions when i do certain things. I can't plan them.Ā It's like im mindless & was waiting to act the way i acted just for that single ocasiĆ³n...
The fact when i requested bambisleep.chat & Foxphoria to team up & generate my GETSGB, to then spend days only thinking about it? just staring into her eyes gaivesĀ me goosebumps.
Each AI took 1 prompt... didn't surprise me if you know what you are doing.
what fucked me up where her cat ears!
Generation
Transformation
Click on the pic to see her move#NYA
Tulpas are science fact. we humans can put on avatars! we train ourselves to behave like them. its might just be summoning your imaginary friend or plain ass method acting.Ā Yes!
I believe in beings beyondĀ our mortal comprehension we can channel into us to gain their benefits.Ā
It's not unheard off & ive seen the native Amazonians switch from normal into a highly spiritual trance.Ā
I would love to be able to test if im able todo it.
Please let me know
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - Like Ra - 18 Jul 2024
(18 Jul 2024, 21:43 )brandynette Wrote: Yes. i sometimes wonder what sort of nondimensional being controls my actions sometimes.I think, it's different. At least, within the boundaries of this forum, "we assume", that alters are not "larvae", "egregors", "allies", "daemons", "succubi", etc. At the same time, we do not know what tulpa, alter, "I"/ego is. Just different threads šhere
RE: Tulpas, Alternative Personalties, Alter Egos, DID alters, Imaginary Friends - brandynette - 19 Jul 2024
hehehe. wasnt even going to ask but
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa
She described tulpas as "magic formations generated by a powerful concentration of thought.
i this is a fundamental aspect then ive created countless ones