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+-- Forum: Fetishes, obsessions, traits, features, peculiarities (https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Forum-Fetishes-obsessions-traits-features-peculiarities)
+--- Forum: Hypnosis and Hypno-fetish (https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Forum-Hypnosis-and-Hypno-fetish)
+--- Thread: How do you know if hypnosis works? (/Thread-How-do-you-know-if-hypnosis-works)
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Zooy - 24 Feb 2021
The situation is even more complex.
A few years ago there was a BBC documentary on placebo's (I cannot find it back. A google search gives many such documentaries but not the one I looked for). The most striking experiment was from Harvard university where they gave a number of people placebo's, telling them that they were placebo's. One of the participants was a medical student with a very bad case of IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome). She knew very well what a placebo is. Yet it cured her IBS. Until the experiment was over and she did no longer get the placebo. She moved heaven and earth to get more of the stuff, but because it wasn't a registered medication she could not.
If you say that hypnosis is like a placebo and once you know that it should not work, apparently that may not be the whole truth. We still do not know how the thinking mind can/will influence the parts that operate without us being aware of it, like the whole defence mechanism. It is clear that placebo's can trick the mind into controlling that to some extend. My expectation is that with hypnosis this should also be possible, but how is probably still a big mystery.
There are occasionally cases of cancers that are cured against all expectations of the specialists. Does this involve such a type of control? Could this be achieved with hypnosis?
I am a master of Reiki, and as far as I can figure out, it works on the same level. It gives the (right) patient the confidence to heal themselves. But how that works internally, I have no idea.
It will not be easy to really determine whether an effect is due to hypnosis or something else, because people usually do many other things at the same time. Hence one needs lots of statistics at the least. That is why I said in an earlier post that the only experiment I can think of and that is double blind is something with subliminals where neither the patient nor the therapist knows what is in the subliminals.
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Like Ra - 24 Feb 2021
(24 Feb 2021, 14:01 )thominhose Wrote: You are not ingesting anything when exposing skin to the sun and yet it affects your essential vitamin D levels and hormones and its definitely not considered a placebo.That's radiation in a hugely wide spectrum. Definitely far from placebo.
(24 Feb 2021, 14:01 )thominhose Wrote: whatever you're ingesting instead of actual medicine is meant to be "neutral", else you would invalidate any study employing placebos.If you can disregard the side-effect of the placebo pill, if the working of the actual medicine is very far from the effect of the "placebo material" (which can also be present in the the "real pill"), then everything is OK.
(24 Feb 2021, 14:01 )thominhose Wrote: Or sleep, highly necessary for the human organism, but is there anything coming from the outside that is not also received when in the wake state?Yes, you use internal mechanisms with no external physical or informational influence.
(24 Feb 2021, 14:01 )thominhose Wrote: Another difference: placebos fail to work when you're aware of them being used, which is not the case for hypnosis, but then again, hypnosis might also fail if I'm convinced that it won't work??? Oh damnit...Bingo! Both hypnosis and medical placebo are no more, no less, but provided information. Generally, you do not need any external information, you can concentrate on something internally. This is called "self-hypnosis", "meditation on XXX", etc. 😊
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - thominhose - 24 Feb 2021
(24 Feb 2021, 15:14 )Like Ra Wrote:(24 Feb 2021, 14:01 )thominhose Wrote: You are not ingesting anything when exposing skin to the sun and yet it affects your essential vitamin D levels and hormones and its definitely not considered a placebo.That's radiation in a hugely wide spectrum. Definitely far from placebo.
(24 Feb 2021, 14:01 )thominhose Wrote: Another difference: placebos fail to work when you're aware of them being used, which is not the case for hypnosis, but then again, hypnosis might also fail if I'm convinced that it won't work??? Oh damnit...Bingo! Both hypnosis and medical placebo are no more, no less, but provided information. Generally, you do not need any external information, you can concentrate on something internally. This is called "self-hypnosis", "meditation on XXX", etc. 😊
Indeed, "radiation" and "sound" vs. "image" and "noise" as the subsets that a
eady contain information in the respective physical domain (I just hope I'm somewhat accurate with the wording). Why differentiate between the effects it causes on and in the skin or the damage it does to the ear vs. whatever the brain is able to "emit in measurable ways" after having processed the neural signals in order to call something placebo or not?But I think we are on the same side that what defines a placebo-effect, i.e. the rite of taking something which by biochemical understanding alone is useless but still shows an effect nonetheless and what we try to accomplish when meditating or listening to hypnosis apparently has a similar input/output structure!
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Like Ra - 24 Feb 2021
(24 Feb 2021, 18:18 )thominhose Wrote: whatever the brain is able to "emit in measurable ways" after having processed the neural signals in orderThis is where my second non-western-science-proof theory lies - thought-forms, that can provide the necessary information, as soon as you tune in by matching the frequencies (just like the radio).
But we digress. This thread is not about how hypnosis works (if it works), but how to prove that it works (or not).
My question is - how do you distinguish between "playing along" and "being affected by hypnosis"? Is it possible at all?
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Kit-Katt - 25 Feb 2021
(24 Feb 2021, 19:12 )Like Ra Wrote: My question is - how do you distinguish between "playing along" and "being affected by hypnosis"? Is it possible at all?
This almost sounds like "fake it 'til you make it" mentality.
How do you become hypnotized?
Pretend you're hypnotized.
When do you stop?
Never
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Like Ra - 25 Feb 2021
(25 Feb 2021, 17:44 )Lucas Gryvon Wrote: "fake it 'til you make it" mentality.Yep, this is how most teaching system works. Some things can not be explained, but they can be felt.
(25 Feb 2021, 17:44 )Lucas Gryvon Wrote: How do you become hypnotized?Exactly, at the end you don't know if you are hypnotized or not. It's extremely difficult to realize that you are dreaming when you are sleeping. And this is where the second option might help:
Pretend you're hypnotized.
When do you stop?
Never
(23 Feb 2021, 23:52 )Like Ra Wrote: As for behaviour, I see two options:
o- you must be VERY aware of your actions (think "mindfullness") to notice any non-standard inclinations
o- "unlikelinesses" might be noticed by others, who know you well
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - thominhose - 26 Feb 2021
(24 Feb 2021, 19:12 )Like Ra Wrote: My question is - how do you distinguish between "playing along" and "being affected by hypnosis"? Is it possible at all?
Perhaps some differential analysis between what exposure to my fetishistic triggers vs. any "learnt" erotic hypnotic conditioning does?
I know that the former is much more real than whatever the fascination of giving in to trancing provides me with.
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Like Ra - 26 Feb 2021
... and how to distinguish from the usual "waves of interests" ... ?
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Like Ra - 04 Mar 2021
(26 Feb 2021, 15:12 )Like Ra Wrote: ... and how to distinguish from the usual "waves of interests" ... ?... and how do we know, what causes those "waves of interests" ... ?
RE: How do you know if hypnosis works? - Zooy - 04 Mar 2021
Reading a lot about it on likera.com?