Body-modification hypnosis

[Like Ra]

I bet it works.

How do you know? Any reports from others?

[MindsEye]

not many success stories. Someone said it was working here: https://www.warpmymind.com/phpbb/viewtop...=8&t=10748

[Like Ra]

Someone said it was working

OK, then I'm not going to listen to it 😁

[Zooy]

Why is there no follow up?

Exactly!

What I find particularly interesting is the fact, that all researches I could find were conducted between 1960 and 1980.

Hypnosis is unpopular amongst those who give money for grants? "Pseudoscience"?

The implantation companies would definitely not support this. Neither the surgeons who live of those operations.

I wonder what resources are needed for a better investigation. If it is done at a university, you may not need salaries of the major investigator(s). The previous studies are all from before the internet. It should now be possible to do certain parts much cheaper. You do not need a hypnotist for each person for each session. Two or three good files in the style of wmm could do the job.
The major problem seems to me to keep the participants honest in the sense that they are not doing other things during the experiment that might influence the outcome significantly, like taking hormones or changing eating/exercising habits. And that they do the measurements every day in the same way.

A control experiment can be that you give different files to different groups of people. This can be done double blind.

Maybe wmm might want to cooperate on this? I can imagine that the files that would be used would sell quite well if indeed they are shown to be effective.

[Like Ra]

The implantation companies would definitely not support this. Neither the surgeons who live of those operations.

Just like the big farmas and medicine in general are not interested in promoting yoga or similar life-styles 😁

Have a look at this paper: https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...9#pid42959 Lots of interesting things there. Proved by experiments.

Important recent studies utilizing biofeedback suggest that everyone may have the potential ability to control voluntarily the flow of blood to specific areas of the skin.

Also yoga is mentioned.

[Zooy]

I had a better look at the mentioned paper and I looked up Theodore X. Barber. He was a well known psychologist who investigated hypnosis but stopped this type of publishing it seems after the 70's and he died in 2005.

I find something rather strange in the paper:

In summary, the data presented by Ikemi and Nakagawa indicate that in individuals who show marked dermatitis when stimu- lated by the leaves of poison ivy-like plants, (a) at least some aspects of the dermatitis can be produced by a harmless substance when the individual is led to believe it is the dermatitis-producing substance, (b) the dermatitis generally can be inhibited when the individual is led to believe that the poisonous leaves are harmless leaves, © formal hypnotic induction procedures are not necessary or especially useful in producing these effects, and (d) it appears that the critical variable in producing the phenomena is the subjects’ belief that a harmless substance is actually a dermatitis-producing substance and, vice versa, that a dermatitis-producing substance is actually a harmless substance.

If you take point b, that would mean that if you pick some poison ivy thinking it is a harmless plant, you should not get a reaction. That was not what happened to a German fellow student of mine in the US in 1973 when he picked some plants for some friends, not knowing about poison ivy (after all, he had just arrived from Europe and had never been told about the stuff).

This is rather interesting:

 It thus appeared to us that an important variable determining whether a psychological treatment will affect warts is its believed-inefJicucy; that is, whether the subjects believe that the treatment is capable of curing warts.

Another quote:

Staib and Logan (1977) also confirmed Williams’ (1974) results and, in addition, found that practically all (81%) of the gains in breast size were still present three months after the end of treatment.

This make me think very much of a product that is sold in Holland&Barrett to increase breast size: it is a cream that makes the cells bigger as long as you use it, but afterwards they will slowly return to their original size. Real growth comes from cells dividing to make more cells. Hence the question: how permanent is the hypnosis/suggestive growth?

Also in the other papers there is no measuring after a longer period. There is the direct effect, but that does not distinguish between the two types of getting bigger breasts. If it is a matter of blood flow, I would expect the cell size.

[Like Ra]

Real growth comes from cells dividing to make more cells. Hence the question: how permanent is the hypnosis/suggestive growth?

I take it, that the grows comes from dividing cells, hence it's permanent. I have little to no doubts, that it's permanent. Think of gynecomastia in men. Breasts enlarging is much easier, than making breasts smaller 😁

it is a cream that makes the cells bigger

In my opinion, the only thing, that can make cells bigger, is water. Edema, in other words.

[Zooy]

Real growth comes from cells dividing to make more cells. Hence the question: how permanent is the hypnosis/suggestive growth?

I take it, that the grows comes from dividing cells, hence it's permanent. I have little to no doubts, that it's permanent. Think of gynecomastia in men. Breasts enlarging is much easier, than making breasts smaller 😁

it is a cream that makes the cells bigger

In my opinion, the only thing, that can make cells bigger, is water. Edema, in other words.

I looked that product up on the internet and there it was said (in the information leaflet) that it was making the cells larger. This means of course absorbing liquid. It also claimed one cup size increase and that it would go away eventually after stopping using the cream.
One cup size is about what was typically obtained in the papers mentioned earlier. At least it mentions some women had to buy a bra one cup bigger.
If it is a matter of directing bloodstreams it 'could' be just an absorption of liquid. I am not saying it is. It would be interesting to know how permanent those increments were eventually.

The gynecomastia in men usually has a hormonal background. That is not a matter of hypnosis/suggestion.

[Zooy]

I found the web page back.
breastgro.nl
Their capsules are loaded with hops (fyto-estrogens) which is also a source of a lot of male breast growth by drinking lots of beer. I must have picked up the remarks about the recurrence from another page. It was quite a few years ago (at least 6).
Most creams that you can buy work on the fat cells only. Those can grow in size relatively easily. But can also loose the fat again.
But this goes all beyond the hypnosis/suggestions.

Remains the question: does anybody active on this forum have personal experience with this type of hypnosis?

[Like Ra]

I'm trying to redistribute hairs and "move" them from my body and face to my scalp and lashes. I posted a couple of files here:

https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...1#pid28681
https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...8#pid39838
https://www.likera.com/forum/mybb/Thread...4#pid43054